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Re: Opinions Wanted on KT Paint - Seems to be Missing Someth

Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 1:04 am
by tomhugill
Marc780 wrote:I think I'm at an impasse. Might be about the best I am capable of doing. STILL doesn't look quite right! But perfect the enemy of good enough...I'm done with this for a while, here's the final incarnation, I'm gonna leave it for a bit and maybe forever. It's getting a bit ridiculous with this one. Probably about good enough and that's where I better leave it.

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Nothing wrong with your camo, you've just stopped at the first stage of painting. The advice given is spot on, chip, weather, pin wash etc and I'm sure you'll be happy.

Re: Opinions Wanted on KT Paint - Seems to be Missing Someth

Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 3:59 am
by dgsselkirk
notice how now the blocks of colour are much smaller and mre to scale if a crew man was spraying areas. I think you've got it about right and now follow Tom's advice and it will look great! :D

Re: Opinions Wanted on KT Paint - Seems to be Missing Someth

Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 4:46 am
by ALPHA
What dgsselkirk said... and I still think your previous paint job flashed.... because I can see that the color you added is much more robust...the only unfortunate thing about "flash" is there is no real fix except to do the paint over....and be more careful with the sealer... or ...do what everyones been saying ..and just go with it...adding all the detail bits and weathering it ;)


IT'S A TANK :haha: ...not like you're painting a hot rod and the paint has to be glossy :D

ALPHA

Re: Opinions Wanted on KT Paint - Seems to be Missing Someth

Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 2:28 pm
by Marc780
ALPHA wrote:A thought came to mind Marc... first off you didn't seal it again right?.... Something that came to mind as I thought about your first paint job... though it looked ok to me on the screen.... it may not have looked that way when you look at it.... It's called "FLASHING"....Flashing occurs when you dilute clears ... combined with the air pressure coming out of your airbrush... it will flash and become a little opaque ... it can ruin a good paint job...and usually doesn't really show on photos
So if you do reseal ...get some Tamiya retarder.... or reduce the clear less ;)

ALPHA
That is something i'd never heard of before Alpha, i've been using rattle can clear, satin and matte. And probably doesn't even need either of those because the paint looked dry and sun bleached beforehand and now like a toy museum piece. I did go back over the clear finish anyway, on the fenders only, to test the Vallejo ochre as a wash and observe the result... It is close to what i want but not quite. I read someone said "use Tamiya Buff and spray it on, this will blend the colors" so I'm willing to try that. The Tamiya is its Acrylic paint, so wont react with the base paint (testors, which is enamel, i think). So i've sent away for a bottle of that...I am preceding carefully doing one small area-will probably try the tamiya buff on my panzer III first to see the effect.

Re: Opinions Wanted on KT Paint - Seems to be Missing Someth

Posted: Sat Sep 27, 2014 3:59 pm
by ALPHA
Marc780 wrote:
ALPHA wrote:A thought came to mind Marc... first off you didn't seal it again right?.... Something that came to mind as I thought about your first paint job... though it looked ok to me on the screen.... it may not have looked that way when you look at it.... It's called "FLASHING"....Flashing occurs when you dilute clears ... combined with the air pressure coming out of your airbrush... it will flash and become a little opaque ... it can ruin a good paint job...and usually doesn't really show on photos
So if you do reseal ...get some Tamiya retarder.... or reduce the clear less ;)

ALPHA
That is something i'd never heard of before Alpha, i've been using rattle can clear, satin and matte. And probably doesn't even need either of those because the paint looked dry and sun bleached beforehand and now like a toy museum piece. I did go back over the clear finish anyway, on the fenders only, to test the Vallejo ochre as a wash and observe the result... It is close to what i want but not quite. I read someone said "use Tamiya Buff and spray it on, this will blend the colors" so I'm willing to try that. The Tamiya is its Acrylic paint, so wont react with the base paint (testors, which is enamel, i think). So i've sent away for a bottle of that...I am preceding carefully doing one small area-will probably try the tamiya buff on my panzer III first to see the effect.
Rattle cans can "flash" too.... what affects them is as simple as paint compatibility....or temperature....also if you go too heavy too fast...I used to paint cars when I was much younger ( real cars not models)....flashing was a pretty common thing...and there wasn't really a good fix for it...best thing to do was to let it set and dry ... sand it and do a new cover coat
When I did my figures .... I'd get flashing when shooting clear coats.... the solution for that was to delegate one airbrush strictly for clear...that way I could use a course tip ...and shoot the clear undiluted

You also might want to skip the buff stuff.... and just go into weathering using hairspray...There's a bunch of stuff you can do....thing is you just have to remember it's a Tank :D ....Tanks don't need perfect paint jobs.... ;)

ALPHA

Re: Opinions Wanted on KT Paint - Seems to be Missing Someth

Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 3:50 am
by Marc780
King Tiger AFter a wash of the wheels, and some drybrushing with sandgelb mixed with brown. Also installing metal arms and strong springs on the Tiger 1.

Here is the King Tiger after some light weathering.

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I sent away for some tamiya "buff" paint, probably could have bought some at the local hobby shops but it was cheap and I'm lazy. Incidentally, I was talking to the lady who owns the local hobby shop, Rob's RC in Huntington beach, and asked her why they don't carry the tanks. She said, "they just don't sell..we tried a few and they sat for too long-I do have to stock what people want to buy..." Probably wasting my breath, but I suggested she try a lot of HL tigers and sell them for $60-70 (they did indeed carry tanks, I saw them there before, but these were the $200 taigen M41's-no wonder they gathered dust on the shelf!) and that she'd make a mint on selling parts and paints and so forth. Either she doesn't get the concept of a "loss leader" product or she knows the hobby market better then I do...Oh well! The HL Tanks just aren't big here in the USA.

Anyway I want to try and airbrush some over the KT and see how that works. As for the drybrushing, I did try it on my Panzer III first and like the result so I went ahead on the King. Not too pleased with the decals at all-those will need to be redone. On a flat surface like my Panzer III you can make em work-just cut close to the numbers and they are good enough, for me anyway. On the zimmerit surface, not so much. Also the KT is much bigger and shows the least flaw. I have stencils I bought earlier just for this, I plan to install my metal gearboxes into the KT, redo the rear screens i mangled and perhaps beef up the hull the same way I did the tiger-I still have the L shape alumin bar and plan to glue that inside the hull too. Worked pretty well for the tiger.

Speaking of which, I added metal suspension arms to the tiger today. I thought this tank was getting pretty heavy so I thought might benefit performance from the stronger springs, and metal arms. The arms I got from Artistic hobbies, in Texas, they were here in 4 days. The springs from good old Mato mart, Ali express, i was very surprised they were here in only one week.

Here's the metal arms. For me, being in the US, Artistic hobbies was the cheapest so that's who I bought from. A bit less then $20 shipped is what they cost. These susp arms are very beefy just to hold up a 5 lb tank so at first I thought they might be polished steel. But they must be aluminum as a magnet does not stick,

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The springs were cheapest from Ali Express/Mato mart, $10 shipped. Notice as the photo shows, springs are different from left side to right side.

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So now to actually installing the springs and susp arms. In the photo, the old spring and arm is on the left. The pivot bolt is in the center, and the new parts on the right. The old arm and spring is of course not reused. The suspension arm bolt you will reuse and also the washer, over the threaded hole in the hull, per second picture.

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The wheels and susp. arms come apart with the same size hex wrench that removes the front sprockets-I just don't remember the size. They include axles that are smooth threaded, I don't know which tank these are for because they tell you in the ad copy "NOT FOR THE TAIGEN TIGER 1 you need a different part number for taigen". If you have the Heng long/airsoft you will be reusing your factory axles. The axles they sent you with it do not work for Heng long, the ends are not threaded they are smooth. You just use the old axles on these new metal arms. Please note also, when you final install the wheels, the axle threads need to stick out the bottom of the susp. arm, it acts as the suspension arm stop in that curved slot in the plastic hull.

Anyway I'll try to describe how you install these arms with the springs. Remove all the wheels on one side only, then you have the wheels on the other side to use as a guide if need be. First time around I installed the wrong wheels in the wrong holes and had to unscrew and redo them all...argg! :{ Now grab the plastic arm and remove that hex screw. Discard into a container the old susp arm and spring, make sure the washer is not sticking to it and is still in the hole, since you will need that. I kept a plastic can to toss in the old parts as i worked, because there's a lot of them and they pile up fast.

Now to install the new springs-you can tell by the photo, they're strong! I used extra care not to lose small parts because there are many of them and you need every one of them too. I laid out the new parts to my right and dropped the old parts in a bucket to my left. And I used a bit of silicone grease of the 100% type, called "Diver's grease" that I have around for my airguns and Hill pump. (I'm pretty sure you could just use regular grease here since you'd be using a tiny bit, but since I had the silicone grease around anyway, and will certainly not react with the plastic in any way. So i just used this grease as it was the best choice.) Really though I don't think there's much need to lube the parts much if at all, but it helped the spring and washer stick in place anyway during assembly.

So, the way I quickly learned to do it. Double check the tiny washer is in place in the hole. Now Insert the spring end into the hole in the hull. It's best not to try to fight the spring, with all wheels and arms removed you have working room to just place the arm over t he spring then insert the pivot bolt into the threaded hole. Place the suspension arm over the spring and press down until the arm captures the spring. Now insert the susp. arm bolt and push until you feel it enter the hole. Start turning the hex wrench, feel the bolt start itself in the threaded hole in the hull, and tighten it. If the spring pops out just start again. The suspension arm hole is just going to point wrong until you install the wheels anyway so I just left them like that and did the other 7 wheels. After a few times installing the susp arms, you get the hang of it and they go fast.

Installing the wheel, you probably want to start at one end or the other. The only trick here is, the end of the axle sticks out, which you want it to do, because it is the "stop" for the travel of the suspension arm in its proper installed position. So get the axle threaded and started in the susp arm hole til it engages the threads. Now pivot against the spring force, turn the susp arm to where it is over the "slot" in the hull. Now finish tightening the axle=the end of the axle will stick out, and act as a stop, in the slot next to the suspension arm. Repeat 15 more times!

Really it's not so bad once you get the hang of it. Once you have the fingerspitzengefuehl of how the arms go on, they will go on fairly easy. Please do, beware of dropped or flying parts at first though you don't want to lose any of the parts!!! I put some plastic underneath my tiny, tiny work table (a wooden tv tray yet) for that purpose but I used care and thank goodness, did not lose any of the parts (except one washer, I had a spare in my spares drawers anyways).

If your tank has the metal tracks, metal wheels, or otherwise added lots of weight to it, you might like this upgrade. It was a bit of a chore to install and if you plan on adding weight to the tank, say anything more then the metal gearbox, I'd install these before painting if possible. As if you use any grease at all can make a bit of a mess that needs cleaning off the tank with alcohol or windex or something else that won't damage plastic.

Re: Opinions Wanted on KT Paint - Seems to be Missing Someth

Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 5:13 pm
by ALPHA
Just a note Marc...those upgrade springs...they put a strain on the plastic support towers ...you might want to reinforce them from the inside with a sheet of plasticard.... ;) ...When I did that mod to my Tiger... it broke one of my towers off...luckily I had a spare hull ;)

ALPHA

Re: Opinions Wanted on KT Paint - Seems to be Missing Someth

Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 5:49 pm
by greengiant
Did the clear coats you used dull the brightness of the colors? I've noticed this with some of my German cammo patterns. Even on flat olive drab paint jobs.
I have a tiger one that seemed to be fading away but by carefully using zytle ( an enamel paint remover ) on continually replaced paper towels I was able to remove just the flat clear coatings and low and behold the original brighter colors were still intact. I then applied a single very thin recoat of the clear mat coat and the colors have stayed bright.
If you try this work small areas at a time and do it quickly or the zytle will remove all layers of paint along with the clear coats. Try painting a scrap piece of tank with a bright color like the yellow in your reference photo. Then spay on your clear dull coats. If the yellow seems to be much lighter that is your problem.
If using this method on a tamaya styrene plastic tank be very careful as the product will melt any unpainted styrene.

Re: Opinions Wanted on KT Paint - Seems to be Missing Someth

Posted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 11:51 pm
by Marc780
QUESTIONS ON PICTURE HANGING WIRE FOR TOW CABLE AND HANGING THE SPARE TRACKS ON THE KT
ALPHA wrote:Just a note Marc...those upgrade springs...they put a strain on the plastic support towers ...you might want to reinforce them from the inside with a sheet of plasticard.... ;) ...When I did that mod to my Tiger... it broke one of my towers off...luckily I had a spare hull ;)

ALPHA
Thanks alpha, it has those metal bars inside where the susp arms pivot holes go, from the factory, do you suppose those help in any way? I have not taken a close look but to me they look permanently installed. If the bars come off-you're right, the answer might be, glue some brass tubing around the plastic studs! Have to take a closer look at that alright. Those springs are dang strong.

Thanks green giant not really sure what you meant completely, I did want the camo colors to fade somewhat so I have been drybrushing sandgelb onto the dark and the brown onto the sandgelb to make the paint darken and match for more subtle effect...I'm getting confused on which weathering methods truly make the model "pop" like the experten here can do with their models, and the issue is its like testing flashbulbs after all, a weathering method gone wrong can require a repaint...

I have painted the KT at least 6-7 times before and this is the first time i've even come close to what I want to see. I sent away for some Tamiya Buff to spray on with the airbrush but when I mentioned that, everyone warned not to use it! Since on this forum, advice of this kind is invariably correct, perhaps i will either try it on the test bed Mark III I have or try some on the back of the hull and underside of the front hull and see before I commit to the whole model. Those tiny bottles 1/3 ounce, I think you would get one full pass with the airbrush and you're out of product. So, probably not going to try a test weathering on my test-bed tank like i usually do on my Panzer III (which actually looks pretty good after testing dry brushing).

I'm getting ready to do the tow cables on the side of the hull I am not happy with the plastic ones-was told to use picture hanging wire. Any comments on that would be appreciated...I thought to use bicycle brake cable but probably not suitable for several reasons. I will try to cut off the tow cable ends and drill inside and several people say they have done...the problem with this sort of cost cutting, for me, is usually the job gets botched and/or I wind up spending more then if i had just bought the purpose made cables!

Also re hanging the spare tracks on the turret-I can't find the hangers from the kit, and for the TIger I'm sure they never included any at all, on the KT not sure if they even included any-whats the best way to make them, for both KT and tiger? Or who to buy from?

Re: Opinions Wanted on KT Paint - Seems to be Missing Someth

Posted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 5:43 am
by ALPHA
Marc780 wrote:QUESTIONS ON PICTURE HANGING WIRE FOR TOW CABLE AND HANGING THE SPARE TRACKS ON THE KT
ALPHA wrote:Just a note Marc...those upgrade springs...they put a strain on the plastic support towers ...you might want to reinforce them from the inside with a sheet of plasticard.... ;) ...When I did that mod to my Tiger... it broke one of my towers off...luckily I had a spare hull ;)

ALPHA
Thanks alpha, it has those metal bars inside where the susp arms pivot holes go, from the factory, do you suppose those help in any way? I have not taken a close look but to me they look permanently installed. If the bars come off-you're right, the answer might be, glue some brass tubing around the plastic studs! Have to take a closer look at that alright. Those springs are dang strong.
No Problem Marc... think you are picturing in your mind the wrong area though....putting a brass tube on the tower won't help...as it's the base of the tower that will give in... so you have to reinforce the hull itself from behind....I didn't go with the upgrade springs on my KT...I just clocked the front two stock springs... if you look inside the area where the spring goes into there are two holes... one is clocked...so it will make the spring seem stiffer... I only did the front...as that's all I felt was needed to boost the front with the metal gearboxes in it...it made a lot of difference without putting added stress on the tower ;)

ALPHA