Scratchbuilding C&Cs Mammoth Tank

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Wildboar44
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Re: Scratchbuilding C&Cs Mammoth Tank

Post by Wildboar44 »

Hi Munty........

For my pennies worth I think the cannon's are completely in proportion .... a case of if it looks right ...it is right !

How can we offer hint's and tips.... we are following you in this "one step beyond " build ..... God there must be so
many things buzzing around in your head as your head hits the pillow... :crazy: , You have an amazing gift for engineering solutions !

Regards

Gordo
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Nothgrin
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Re: Scratchbuilding C&Cs Mammoth Tank

Post by Nothgrin »

Hello Munty!

Checking in on your build and I have to say that its amazing what you've done so far! I originally had my own build of the mammoth in mind but due to the sheer size of it the cost would have been too much so I had to abandon it. I was able to find a papercraft model of the mammoth online and did some calculations and the size came out somewhere near yours if not bigger. I had started working on internal electronics rather than the outer shell first to see what kind of space requirements I needed. I had airsoft cannon, cannon elevation, laser, RF video camera, and 360deg turret rotation in mind. Maybe a bit much but a man can dream ;). A few more microcontrollers are rolling into the market soon that could possibly lower the cost but I will have to play around with them first.

Anyways enough of my stuff. Once again I'd like to say that your build is looking fantastic :clap:. Keep up the awesomeness! I'll be sure to check back soon.
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Munty
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Re: Scratchbuilding C&Cs Mammoth Tank

Post by Munty »

Thanks Wildboar, that's some serious praise there! I actually went to bed a good 4-5 hours before I fell asleep last night but not sure that was the tanks fault to be honest... Thankfully I'm pretty lucky at the moment in that all of my next jobs are simply redoing what I've already done before. That means I no longer have to worry about how to reinforce the track assemblies, how to extend the axles or how to make the tracks bigger... That said I'm sure the challenges are FAR from over but still, I'm in a good place right now! Thanks again for the kind words though, makes it much easier to keep on track :thumbup:

Nothgrim, don't give up based on that, it sounds like you just set yourself a starting point that is inaccessible! I checked the date of my first post here and I've only been working on this project for about 30 months so far. And yes that is actually a long ass time but I took a year and a half off in the middle and numerous other months slip by with little to no progress too! Most of my actual delays (read - times I want to work on it but can't) have been caused by the need to solve problems that I didn't know would exist, much as wildboar says! Moneywise it's been far more affordable than you'd think, especially thanks to the generosity of some of the members here. You'll also see that throughout the whole build I've basically 'made do' with whatever I can get my hands on. I got a great deal on the plasticard in the first place so the shell wasn't that expensive and then things like wood and fittings don't exactly bump up the budget too much! One of the biggest expenses so far has actually been the CNC cut rear grill which set me back about 20 quid iirc, but that's an acceptable cost to make the end product as accurate to the source material as possible! I wanted to have everything in the turret working from the get go as well, but soon realised that just making the thing move would be tough enough! Currently I just want to get it 'ready' to move and looking how I want it to look. The job of actually getting it mobile may well come after final detailing for all I know, but I know it WILL come some day as I'm not going to let this build go until it's finished! Seriously, don't write it off just yet, it's a pretty fun undertaking and the more obstacles I overcome, the fewer you'll have to!

Also, imagine my recent horror to discover I'm actually NOT the first person to do this! I found some images linking to a dutch tank club (battle tank nederlands I think) where someone had made some kind of RC mammoth. I soon realised however that it's pretty basic... It doesn't seem to be in any particular scale, the basic shape is wrong, it uses standard tracks (so everything is too small) and there is next to no detailing. That's kind of good as if I'd found one that some rich guy with a workshop had made, perfect in every way, I would be utterly devastated! So, I'm NOT the first person to try making an RC mammoth tank. But I WILL be the one that gets it right. I don't have a workshop or a 'budget' for this build, I do have the dedication to individually make every single track link by hand though and that's exactly what will make this build better than an off the shelf 'adaptation'. I WILL finish this build, even if it takes another 30 months! And when I do, this guy will wonder why he even bothered :haha:

But enough of that! Just to wrap up a response to Nothgrim, I've always umm'd and ah'd a bit about scale since I got started. While I'm happy with it I do somethimes wonder if I got it right... Recently I came across a few more official pictures that make me wonder even more! They should be linked below if the website allows it.

Renegade - Direct comparison
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Original - Direct Comparison
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Obviously the size changed drastically between the two games based on these images! It's always been the Renegade dimensions I based my dimensions on though so I guess the former isn't all that controversial. All the same I decided to do the maths anyway...

As always, average height in Europe in the 90s is around 5'10", say 1.77m. That means the mammoth in the first image is roughly 478cm wide, 301cm tall and 743cm long (903 including cannon)

The second image would suggest the commando is slightly shorter than the outer side of the sloping track guard (perspective plays little role in this image so direct displacement works fine) This would suggest a height of roughly 6'4" or about 1.95m. Ok, so maybe it isn't as drastic a change as it first seems! Still, thisa isn't the best image to take renegade measurements from anyway, this one is...
Image

That image shows the full length of the Mammoth AND real life Abrahms tank together with 0 perspective loss. Provided the Medium tank in the game is an exact copy of the Abrahms then it will be 9.77m long and the mammoth here is approximately 115% that size. That would make it 11.23 meters from butt to barrell, so it IS a significant increaser over that first image after all...

However... I have a feeling that the Mammoth I'm building comes in at something like 13m long with the barrels included... Quite a large error if I'm right! An image I posted at the very beginning of this topic shows an overall length of 13.09m being used in which case I'm quite a bit over! Will measure the build next time I'm able but been building up the two remaining wooden reinforcement assemblies yesterday so she's currently on her back! Hopefully I'm not too far out here but luckily noone will ever know except you lot reading this. Just remember, it's our little secret ok?!

Also in today's news, my new sprockets came yesterday! All the way from Hong Kong too, the hobby capital of the world! No idea how they arrived so quickly but am pretty chuffed they did! Will need to get them drilled out to 10mm like the others but unfortunately I have another issue with these in that they aren't exactly the same as those I used before... Mike (sassgrunt) advised me this may be the case and he's right. These are reproductions or similar and are virtually identical so they're fine for my build, BUT, I've been using some very prominent circular impressions on the old parts for locating and constructing the axles. Impressions which don't exist on these new parts... Will ask the machinist if he can accurately drill them in for me as then there's no problem but otherwise I may be in trouble!

Will update with images once both these remaining track assembelies are done, shouldn't be long as all the pieces got cut out yesterday and they're mostly assembled already. Even added the bolt that fix them to the hull already so just need to screw it all together today which won't take a moment! Then will probably form the other two pieces of armour as I can't get out to the machinist for a few days now which will prevent finishing the remaining axles. Whatever I do next, I'll let you know when it's done! Thanks again for the kind words and I hope you'll keep watching!
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Dietrich
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Re: Scratchbuilding C&Cs Mammoth Tank

Post by Dietrich »

Hi Munty,
Very nice to see someone trying to build a 'Sci-Fi' tank .....They always look great but are hard to build. :thumbup:
My computer is playing up and only showed me the first page... :{ ...hence this odd post that I have since edited... :{
Here is your drive type on a bulldozer..so it is used in the 21st century...
.
Great work and its nice to see that you have kept going on it despite the enormous task that you set yourself.. I can't wait to see it running :wave:
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Munty
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Re: Scratchbuilding C&Cs Mammoth Tank

Post by Munty »

Thanks Dietrich, that's basically exactly what I've done! If you look back on the previous page of posts there are a whole host of images from putting together the first track assembly in it's final form! Due to weight and size complications, I've left EVERYTHING unsprung for now but adding suspension in the future is certainly something I'd like to do. Once this build is finished I'm actually thinking about upgrading all the track construction to metal parts to toughen things up a bit. It would also allow the fabrication of some custom suspension which simpy isn't possible as long as the tank's main structure is wood and styrene! Thanks for your interest and your comments, hope you keep watching! T
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Munty
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Re: Scratchbuilding C&Cs Mammoth Tank

Post by Munty »

Munty wrote:I reckon I should have all four tracks done within a month (or Christmas at the very latest!) so fingers crossed we'll see something interesting soon!
And that was September 22nd. So I clearly didn't make it! However... Febuary 7th is a date that will go down in history as the day when I finally finished my tracks!

As usual it's been a few months off then a frenzied week of work so I don't think I even picked up the project again until 2014 following my last post! While theoretically this stuff was all very simple replication of work I've already done there was the normal practice of remaking prototypes to appease the OCD in me so I actually ended up completely remaking the first bogey with new materials and slightly different templates. It's fairly missable to the untrained eye though!

I don't think I posted up the other sprockets and driveshafts I had to make for this build but regardless of whether I did or not it's nothing that hasn't been seen before so you're probably lucky not to be seeing more pictures of them! I believe I also made up the remaining two wooden frames since my last post but I only have pictures of the bogey assemblies on hand right now so here they are!

I don't think I ever showed the construction of the first one of these so here it is for the remaining three instead! As mentioned, I also remade the original later on as the final design more closely mimics 2 pairs of wheels as opposed to the original which was 4 equidistant ones. It was also a bit rough around the edges as all my prototypes tend to be... Either way here is the sign I 'found' which helped me with the other bogeys.
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The next shot is mid-process before everything got trimmed and sanded. The leftmost pair are neaqrly ready to go though.
Image

I decided the material I used for the wheels in the prototype was just too tough to cut another 48 and it would've been hard to detail too due to the finish (It was intended as a flooring material afterall) Instead I reverted to some cheap ply from a cupboard I made for my kids some years ago which was a dream to work with. I found the easiest way to cut them was to drill half from one side and then flip the board and finish from the other. This material is marginally thinner than the old stuff but it's JUST enough that it doesn't interfere with the guide teeth on the tracks.
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Here are two of the three remaining tracks that I whipped up in a direct comparison to the finished prototype. I know they look the same but believe it or not there are subtle differences! And of course they haven't had the tops cut down yet either...
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Welcome to our segment on tyre fitting! This seemed to work on the prototype bogey so I've done it again on the others. It's fairly self explanatory for anyone who cares!
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Here's the retired prototype... It had a number of flaws that made me willing to cut a replacement for it but I doubt anyone but myself will notice them!
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It's worth mentioning that I don't actually have any images or information regarding the actual fitting of these bogeys to the track structure itself. Odd really as it was pretty tricky to get it right. Just a single mm too high or too low and they'd either hold the sprockets off the ground or be raised off it themselves! In the end I got a system down which was pretty much foolproof but I won't bore anyone with it and I'm not sure how I could explain it even if I tried!

Of course the exciting moment only came when all of the drive shafts, idlers, bogeys, support frames and tracks were all finished to an acceptable level. And that didn't happen until yesterday. February 7th 2014... My mammoth tank is finally ready to drive! I have full confidence in the construction of this hardware and have little doubt that it will function as expected when the time finally comes. Of course I expect there to be some teething trouble but that's all part and parcel of a never before attempted fantasy scratch build I guess... I just can't believe I've finally reached such a big milestone. There was a day, not too many years ago, when it was just me and a small paper model of this tank sat on my desk. Then I started thinking, you know what would be cool?

Here she is on her back for one last time! All tracks are complete here, though some of the pins are marginally too short and so will cause failure/require replacement at some point. Drive shafts are all finished and only require a means or connection to the gearbox itself, probably a simple splitpin! All idle sprockets are also complete here though a means of securing the rear of these assemblies would be advantageous at some point (however it is unlikely to be a problem as the track itself should prevent failure) Bogey assemblies are of course finished too, though I don't yet have suitable screws to permanently attach them to the wooden support frames. That means there is currently lateral movement, a serious problem were this tank to drive as the entire assembly can move and become jammed in the neighbouring idler! This was a foreseen issue however and is easily fixed with a trip to town! But, returning to my initial point, here she is on her back for the last time!
Image

And once again, it's time for some gratuitous track shots!
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The next job will be to make up the remaining two pieces of track armour, though I'm worried I no longer have enough of the material I used for the others... I also need to finish the second Mammoth Tusk missile pod at some point, which shouldn't be too difficult, and there is always more detailing to be done in the engineering bay!

Realistically, I think the next thing I'll attempt will be armour plating of the turret. It's simply a much smaller job than armour plating the hull! It should make a HUGE asthetic difference too which is what I'm shooting for now. Also, the turret requires no reinforcement whatsoever but I'm still concerned that the hull may do. If ANYONE has any advice on a product or method I could use the strengthen and also conceal the joins in my plasticard shell please do let me know so I can get on with that!

I also need help with the next step of hardware installation so that these tracks can run under their own power. Would be a shame not to now that they finally can! I already have two Heng Long signal controllers (or whatever they are) so am I correct in thinking I can connect each of those up to one pair of motors? If yes then I still need a battery, or more likely several, a controller, and a way to link said controller to both boards simultaneously. Someone said something about crystals I believe? Any help on that would be great though taa!

For now I'm off to have a celebratory beer and check if I have enough material for track armour! If I do then that'll get done tomorrow, if not then something else will! Befor eI go though I have a treat for anyone who's invested in this build... Some of you may remember that I said I'd actually seen these tracks run a while ago but not managed to get a video. Well this time I did it again. And this time I DID get a video! It's not great, and one of the pins was loose during this run which you can see at the end if not before. Given that though, everything worked perfectly despite having one link half missing! That aint not half bad!

So here for the very first time, is my Mammoth tank...
Image
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Jake79
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Re: Scratchbuilding C&Cs Mammoth Tank

Post by Jake79 »

Great read and awesome build!! :clap: just a shame the thread finished there :(
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capt midnight
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Re: Scratchbuilding C&Cs Mammoth Tank

Post by capt midnight »

Just a quick throw in about the sheet plastic. I found a really great source for some rather large sheets of polystyrene, like the Evergreen sheets, only MUCH larger.

Check at your local home improvement store for items called "TUB SURROUNDS". They are used to put on the walls around your tube to dress it up a bit. Usually come with a couple of corner pieces and 3 or 4 large pieces of flat white plastic. One side is flat while the other side has a texture to it to bite the glue when you install it. These pieces are usually around 5 foot tall and close to 2 foot wide. I've built some large stuff with this material, including a 1/10 scale Star Trek Shuttlecraft. It glues with regular model adhesive and is quite easy to work with.

Might be worth taking a look.

Bill
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velthal
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Re: Scratchbuilding C&Cs Mammoth Tank

Post by velthal »

I wonder how your project is going. i want one of these too))))
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HERMAN BIX
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Re: Scratchbuilding C&Cs Mammoth Tank

Post by HERMAN BIX »

velthal wrote: Tue Jul 09, 2024 11:09 am I wonder how your project is going. i want one of these too))))
Sorry mate, he has not visited this place since 2014.............
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