Lively Debate

[FreakyDude]

Merkava has the engine and drive in the front of the Tank for ONE reason. Crew Safety - that is it, the hatch at the back allows the crew to escape. Isrealis have excellently trained Armour crews and they are way more valueable to Isreal than the Tankl itself. In addition the Isreali army believes with more steel at the front portion of the tank it will take a shot longer and be harder to actually get at the crew. Crew Safety

As for the front or rear drive, The front drive is a higher traction unit, yes you give up compartment space and ease of production. If you want your tank to have the best traction then the front dive is the way to go.
Repairing or removing a tranny on any tank is difficult to say the least, regardless of what model.
Now as for the point that having a front drive get shot being a major weakness - How is hitting a drive or an idler any different? the repair steps might be but come on, I shoot your idler wheel I am sure your track comes off and your wheel is totally useless as well turning your tank into a pillbox. although I would still rather be in a Tiger, Panther or KT pillbox.

[mustclime]

Merkava having the drivetrain up ft for crew protection is s nice story but as long as you keep your shells in the same armored box as the people, all I can say is... I would rather be in a m1a2 with the amo stored in a sealed off box away from me with blast doors that pop open if the amo starts to cook off.

If you really think an idler wheel and a drive wheel are the same as far as taking a hit...sorry, thats just wrong. Think of a big steel axel bolted the a armored hull with a wheel attached to it and then think of axle sticking out of a gear box....

My I sugest you pick up some of the panzer tracks booklets....20.1 has the e tank designs in it , a lot of the pics I have posted are from there ...I forget what one has the panther 2 and f. The germans knew their tanks offered to large a target. What do you think the reason was for them to that little tinny turret for the panther f and panther 2? The e tanks were supose to be rwd and easy to work on and repair. The panther 2 had king tiger style torsion bars to reduce weight and complexity. The real dicision you have to ask yourself is would you rather be in 1 panther/tiger or be a part of 5-10 t34/85's group because when the germans chose the panther over the vk3002 db, that is what they choose.

[caddyshack]

FreakyDude M8 you are wasting your time trying to get through to him on any thing. Hes one of those arm chair experts. Just nod and move on

[FreakyDude]

mustclime - "I would rather be in a m1a2" well really that says it all. What part of the states you from?

when you clear your mind enough to listen to anything other than what you seem to think you know then we can bring this subject up again. Your comment on the Merkava proves your knowledge level. Then it is seconded by the comment on the idler/drive wheel. Regardless of what you have at the front of your track if it gets hit the Tank is disabled.

As for what I would be in Yes I choose to be in the Panther against 5 to 10 T-34/85.
In fact my real choice would be the Tiger 1 especially on steppes of Russia where you have distance as an allie.
The Tiger could penetrate a T-34 turret at 3,000 meters or 3 kilometers which i think works out to about 1-1/2 miles and the T34 could do what.....

[JayBrd]

[mustclime]

You know, I am the only one posting links here...why is that? Everyone here posts " you do not know what you are talking about" comets yet I do not see any backup for that crap...Prove me wrong! The Germans lost! You guys need to read a little history....the original contract for the panther was for a 30 ton medium tank...what they got was a 45 ton heavy tank and they kept making the panzer 4 as their medium tanks that were junk the minute the T34 was made..... I really think that there is a whole lot f anti commi crap going on aroumd here. The rissions saw the Cristie design and copied it, then they expansed on it with the t34....the panther was a train wreck, The germans needed a easy to produce medium tank and they got ha hard to produce heavy tank.......prove me wrong!!!! post links showing me that the panther was the tank that was needed...... The germans need to operate their with tanks as " fire bragages" as the russions punched through their lines with t34s...If they had enought tanks in the fist place this would have not been nessery! Read some history people!...here are a couple clips....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=slX_ESG7_x4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5u0UcrTk ... re=related" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1-bo7RTv ... re=related" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

pay attention to this one.....

[caddyshack]

Everyone here posts " you do not know what you are talking about"

That was never said to you..

Prove me wrong! The Germans lost! You guys need to read a little history....

You just lost any credibility you had with those type of comments.

[magmer]

In the 1991 Iraq conflict weren't the Soviet built T55 T72 'with the not much gap between the top of the hull and tracks' completely battered at some considerable distance by coalition forces?

[The Tank Man]

It's a shame there is not a top gear show just with Tanks on and instead of a race round a track it would be a battle to the death! Lol There's some people out there that no mater what is said or has been proven they will allways stick to what they think they know! You can fall in love with a Tank! But remember! Love is blind!

[caddyshack]

History is not a dictatorship. Its open to discussion, thats why there are so many books wrote by so many different people ,all who have there own point of veiw on things in history. right down to the basic siege weapon. Its uses and construction. each will have there own opinion how it was made and used to its best.
But you mustclime are like a horse with blinkers on.Only see what you want to see. Then if others have an opinion about the same thing that is different to yours. you try and cut them down.
Am just glad that people like you never write history books. Or it would be a very one way type of history.