RC Tank Warfare community hobby forum

wibblywobbly wrote: I could have sworn he got t back, he went to court, but it appears that they haven't decided what to do with it. It was driven in 1978, the towns folk all knew about it and apparently the army restoration guys worked on it? Shame they damaged the suspension getting it out of his basement. He has the paperwork to confirm it has been decommisioned, but I am guessing that the reason he has not got it back is because not only did he have the Panther and a Flak 88, he also collected Nazi memorabilia, which is a huge nio-no in Germany.

You can collect Nazi memorabilia in Germany - that is not forbidden.
But it is forbidden to show them in public.

However, owning a tank from WWII is very, very difficult. The laws on this have been tightened considerably over the past 10 years.

The whole story is a thriller ...
A young public prosecutor wanted to make herself known through this case and hastily approved the search and the subsequent seizure of the Panther.
The public prosecutor has long since been transferred to nowhere in the desert...
But the government can't just give the panther back now
because they have to pay damages and moore...
The owner of the Panther Mr. Klaus-Dieter Flick is 85 years old, it is only a matter of time before he can no longer make any claims ...

Thanks, Jurgen, for fleshing out the fate of the basement Panther, as well other insights into the current German legal stance on WW2 memorabilia, vehicles, and so on. Thanks also due to Wibbly, Mick and others for chipping in.
Following a few more of Mark's unusual and interesting storylines- especially those focusing on the post-war fate of the War's combat vehicles- we find that Syria was in receipt of numerous Panzer IV's (mostly Ausf H and J) from mostly French sources. What's more, these Pz IVs were engaged in waht turned out to be the last action involving WW2 produced German tanks: the Six-Day- War in the Middle East, in 1967.
In the course of the battle, Centurions (designed in 1943, and produced from 1945-on) took on long-barrelled (1944-45 vintage) PZ IVs. Perhaps it was an uneven contest, in which the competence of the crews was a decisive factor; but the Centurions knocked out 25 Pz IVs, according to Mark, without loss. 25-nil, that is- and quite an impressive score.

Mark's contributions not only sound scholarly, but also make use of excellent contemporary film footage and stills.

And yet the losing Tank (PZ4) is being churned out like sausages by Heng Long/Taigen and the victorious Tank (Centurion) has still to be built and sold by Heng Long/Taigen or any major maker

Kaczor that Sdkfz 250 is amazing , original paint etc . Just shows that the steel was resistant to major rust issues.

In Australia in the 1970's you could pick up a Matilda II at auction for a few hundred dollars with most being purchased by farmers and converted to bulldozers. There is a bloke in a little town called Oberon in NSW who has a collection of 4 or 5 of them along with some universal carriers and a centurion or two. I shudder to think what they are worth these days.

B_Man wrote:In Australia in the 1970's you could pick up a Matilda II at auction for a few hundred dollars with most being purchased by farmers and converted to bulldozers. There is a bloke in a little town called Oberon in NSW who has a collection of 4 or 5 of them along with some universal carriers and a centurion or two. I shudder to think what they are worth these days.

honestly outside of a few collectors or museums very little in real values.

Carrion wrote:honestly outside of a few collectors or museums very little in real values.

You are right that the market for tanks is very limited but those collectors tend to have quite deep pockets when it comes to WW2 vehicles. They certainly sell for more than a few hundred South Pacific Pesos these days even with inflation taken into account: https://www.milweb.net/webvert/a4129/96706

And when you start talking about things like a restored Sherman the price climbs significantly.

ronnie42 wrote:Kaczor that Sdkfz 250 is amazing , original paint etc . Just shows that the steel was resistant to major rust issues.

No-oxygen condition in swamp prevent corrosion. Here is a film from recovery:

And after restoration:

Amazing! Thanks for that, Kaczor. Yes, I've seen several examples of these sleeping beauties being re-awakened after seventy years of immersion in the oxygen-free soup. One T34 needed only the tanks flushed out, new spark plugs and battery to be started, if I remember correctly. There was also a StuG 3 found in nearly 'mint' (or perhaps, 'swamp chic' condition) in Russia- or perhaps it was Poland too.
It wasn't this one, though.

Kaczor wrote:Not far from my town is place called Panzer Farm where a few guys have "tank graveyard" and restore some of them. Every year with my dad and friend modellers we have trip there.
http://panzer-farm.pl/en/museum/collection/

For example, this Sdkfz 250 was dragged from the river and restored to running condition. Paint was left untouched.

But most interesting is ongoing reconstruction of the Tiger tank. They don't show any pictures on social media, but in few years it will be next operational Tiger I. I hope it will stay in Poland not like Panther founded in river, (now it's in USA).

jhamm wrote:

Kaczor wrote: But most interesting is ongoing reconstruction of the Tiger tank. They don't show any pictures on social media, but in few years it will be next operational Tiger I. I hope it will stay in Poland not like Panther founded in river, (now it's in USA).

The tiger I which stood for some time in the Munster tank museum, was also sold to a collector in the USA.
Unfortunately that is always a question of money...
Restoring a tank costs a lot of money.
The longer a part lies in the ground, the more difficult it is to get it back to life..

Kaczor is right. Panzer farm has a Tiger 1 in restoration. Sometimes (very not often), there is pictures on facebook. This link is from 2017, but 2 weeks ago there was recent pictures.




Actually, to my knowledge, there is 6 tigers 1 under restoration. 2 Kevin Wheatcroft, 1 Australian armor museum, 1 Panzer Farm, the Vimoutiers Tiger normally will be move end of this year to be safe and begin a restoration and normally another one by the saler of Tiger 1 in USA (was display at Munster museum).

For the 250, I was to Militracks in 2019...