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Re: 5.1 gearboxes for tanks

Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 12:58 am
by tomhugill
The ratio of the gearboxes (45.58 to 1 ) is in between the standard HL 3:1 and Taigen 4:1. (3:1= about 39:1 while the 4:1= about 90:1). Tamiya standard ratio are about 55:1.

In the downloads section there's a handy gear ratio calculator.

I'm with Gary regarding the 5:1, in steel, not a fan. In brass they were fab.

I'm doing a stug at the moment and was pleasantly surprised by the taigen 3:1 that are used.

Gary's spot on about the 3:1 origin. Schumo did drop down gears which bolted onto the tamiya gearbox these (depending on pinion) had a 3:1 ratio.

My general rule is if you can fit a 4 shaft (4:1) taigen steel gearbox, that's the best option, pound for pound.

Re: 5.1 gearboxes for tanks

Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 12:11 pm
by General Jumbo01
tomhugill wrote:
General Jumbo01 wrote:Unfortunately, the RC tank hobby has always been more about model making than the technical aspects.
ROFL.
If you'd ever been involved at International top championship level as l have in 1/10 racing you would understand why l say this. You wouldn't be seen dead with electronics and drive chains, let alone such cheap materials as are the norm in RC tanks. By comparison they are all near toy quality BUT some of us improve them a little and obtain satisfactory performance (no, not speed!).

Never the less, since performance is only part of what we seek this shouldn't worry us. Consider the tank of the month competition. It's what we see in terms of model
making, including scratch building, that we vote for, not what motor, gearbox, electronics have been built. Most of us are not even aware.

However, that's not a criticism of any of us or how we individually pursue the hobby. We all do RC tanks for our own goals and enjoyment. But, IF we all went F1 tank racing (thank god we don't!) then our tanks would be use carbon fiber chassis, light alloy frames and titanium screws sets and tracks, topped off by a lexan vac formed tank shell with no moving or detail parts.

Like l correctly said, we focus on scale reality rather than technical performance (where we accept compromise in interest of cost) and, in my opinion, quite rightly so.

WLLLL?

Re: 5.1 gearboxes for tanks

Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 3:17 pm
by tomhugill
General Jumbo01 wrote:
tomhugill wrote:
General Jumbo01 wrote:Unfortunately, the RC tank hobby has always been more about model making than the technical aspects.
ROFL.
If you'd ever been involved at International top championship level as l have in 1/10 racing you would understand why l say this. You wouldn't be seen dead with electronics and drive chains, let alone such cheap materials as are the norm in RC tanks. By comparison they are all near toy quality BUT some of us improve them a little and obtain satisfactory performance (no, not speed!).

Never the less, since performance is only part of what we seek this shouldn't worry us. Consider the tank of the month competition. It's what we see in terms of model
making, including scratch building, that we vote for, not what motor, gearbox, electronics have been built. Most of us are not even aware.

However, that's not a criticism of any of us or how we individually pursue the hobby. We all do RC tanks for our own goals and enjoyment. But, IF we all went F1 tank racing (thank god we don't!) then our tanks would be use carbon fiber chassis, light alloy frames and titanium screws sets and tracks, topped off by a lexan vac formed tank shell with no moving or detail parts.

Like l correctly said, we focus on scale reality rather than technical performance (where we accept compromise in interest of cost) and, in my opinion, quite rightly so.

WLLLL?
At risk of going off topic, I think you're doing the hobby a massive disservice comparing a competitive sport (and elite level at that) with something that's generally not adverserial (in your experience). Have a chat with the competitive battlers a Danville etc and you'll see a whole different complexion to the hobby.

This hobby is highly technical just not in the chasing peak performance. Getting a model tank to run and function in a rellalistic manner takes mastery of many different facets. You've got the mechanical side, not just overcoming limitations of the RTR stuff that's out there (or some of the scratch built wonders we see), getting a heavy tank to run well on grass and rough terrain is no mean feat. Then making it work like a proper tank with recoil, elevation rotation etc. You've got the minefield of aftermarket electrics, getting thing running as you'd like, lights, sound (plenty of people make their own), IR battling, the different type of battle systems, IR emitters etc andat before you get onto the scale look of the vehicle!

Re: 5.1 gearboxes for tanks

Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 7:51 pm
by Son of a gun-ner
I find it easier to get a high performance bike or car engine running perfect without a diagnostic device than these bloody tanks.

Re: 5.1 gearboxes for tanks

Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 8:01 pm
by General Jumbo01
I mean no disservice at all Tom. All I've made is a statement of fact. I'm sure that some tank battles are just as competitive as race events, but speeding around a scale village to get position to fire, then speeding for cover all at unrealistic speeds etc will satisfy battlers but not those looking for realism. If you make it realistic, then the competitive goals move. Nothing wrong with that - we all do our hobby differently.

But if you want your tank to traverse grass smoothly it's a doddle. Firstly, you build your own lower hull. You use 540 sized motors, still brushed if you wish, but quality ones you can take apart to clean, change the advance etc. I'd use a 80turn armature, as l do in my Tamiya trucks, to get masses on smooth low end torque so that you have, together with quality ESCs, the ability to crawl away from a standstill on any surface or gradient, and then fit, say, 3 speed gearboxes with high quality gears and ball races throughout.

Now, is that all possible? Yes. Do components exist on the market to do it? Mostly yes, though you'll need to buy from many different manufacturers and scratch build or modify parts. Is this practical? Here comes the catch. For a top spec single motor you'll pay more than you would for a new HL Tiger! For a good programmable electronic speed controller and software maybe more than a Taigen Tiger. Add them together and you could buy a new JS-2! But....would you want to?

If you were into racing, yes you would because if you are not stretching all the boundaries you don't win. If you were enjoying the more sociable, fun hobby of RC tanks then you'd probably prefer to spend that cash on another two complete tanks. I know l would, that's why l waited for the Taigen JS-2 rather than fork out for a Tamiya example. But when racing I'd happily pay well over 1500 quid to build a car (not a kit btw, but parts) which you knew you'd replace by the end of the season, with a set of tyres that cost 30-40 quid that wouldn't last a single race day. How crazy is that? I used to love it and since my sponsors donated virtually all my kit it was personally affordable but after 15 years of that l lost interest and moved to tanks, trucks and drones (no, l wasn't at Gatwick officer).

Now that I'm retired l'm enjoying more affordable hobbies and tanks offer a lot for your money, especially with mates around who help and supply them at great prices. I tolerate the poor quality speed controllers in tanks, l put up with the non proportional (big steps) of the functions and very poorly stepped sounds. I try to improve these deficiencies but much of what needs changing is stuck in a single MFU which is proprietary rather than open standard. One day? Yes, some of this can be swapped out but at a price. But have no fear, the Chinese will sort all this out for us, just as they did for computerised model railways, rc racing electronics and just about everything else on the planet!

Well, I'm falling asleep writing this so I've probably lost you some while ago. If I've upset anyone it was unintentional. I love what we do, at all levels, but l stand by what l said. We focus more on the model than the internals. Were that not so, the internals would be MUCH better, and much more expensive. As a hobby, l think we practice a fine but flexible compromise.

Sorry about the speeling! :eh:

5.1 gearboxes for tanks

Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 9:05 pm
by midlife306
Competitive tanksing, now there’s an ideaImage
Image
Cheers
Wayne


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Re: 5.1 gearboxes for tanks

Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 9:18 pm
by Son of a gun-ner
midlife306 wrote:Competitive tanksing, now there’s an ideaImage
Image
Cheers
Wayne
Oh for pity sake Wayne, delete that before Mr Capri sees it :haha:

Re: 5.1 gearboxes for tanks

Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 9:24 pm
by General Jumbo01
I reckon a 1/35 tank shell should fit on a 1/10 race car chassis with a modicum of fettling! We could fake the caterpillar track just like Dinky did on their Centurion :S

Re: 5.1 gearboxes for tanks

Posted: Sat Jan 05, 2019 9:33 pm
by Son of a gun-ner
Or cheat :D

Image

Re: 5.1 gearboxes for tanks

Posted: Sun Jan 06, 2019 12:03 am
by midlife306
I wonder what gearboxes are in this??
Image
Cheers
Wayne


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