1/16th scale RC tank purchase options. (Tiger 1)

[ALPHA]

Have no knowledge about Tamiya tanks other then what I've read here which is awesome level of detail however the plastic model kit plastic and not as strong as that of any of the R/C tanks.

That isn't correct.

Tiger 1 - The Tamiya Tiger 1 is a large polystyrene tub, which goes all the way from the floor to the top where the deck meets. Inside that is a metal tub. With the back and the glacis on its stronger than any other RC Tiger - apart from the Mato metal ironically - at this scale because its only the top deck which comes off and the hull forms a complete box. If the ABS on my Taigan is anything to go by, the styrene Tamiya uses is stronger

The Tiger 2, JS2, KV's etc are all rigid metal tubs.

Leopard 2 - The bottom is entirely high quality ABS and it all fits together to be probably the strongest 1:16 outside of the Aeromate Tiger and its nearly all plastic of one sort or another. The gearbox is entirely ABS but I'd wager it's one of the toughest boxes out there.

My two cents.... because of Tamiya's origins ....they make a pretty detailed model...some sprues actually are used to enhance the RTR marketed tanks ...the plastic however is not as durable as the RTR tanks....as it still retains it's "model" heritage....aside from WSN.... Most of the RTRs are made for a larger part of the consumer market ...thus ..made more durable ...the plastics are a little thicker and stronger than Tamiya's formula

With that said... the reason Tamiya stays a favorite amongst modelers is because of their relative accuracy....RTRs ...make a tank basically for the image or presentation of a tank.... as several of the brands ...especially Heng Long ...are made to be handled by a larger group... anywhere from 6 to 80 yrs of age ...Tamiya is for adults only ...as I don't think anyone in their right mind ...or how they are financially seated... will allow a 6 yr old to run around with a 2000 dollar toy tank...and yes...this brings us to one of the drawbacks of a Tamiya..... if bought brand new...the kits are already pricy ....some include electrics ....some include the transmitter... but basically kits can start at about 600 dollars and go up from there ...properly outfitted ..using only Tamiya bits... come close to a finish price of about 2000 dollars ...more if you go for aftermarket electronics...metal details...paint and cosmetics

Reason I stick with my Heng Longs....because they are very user friendly ... and can be modified ...sky is the limit....Jackalope...had problems with his Tiger ...it didn't deter me from buying another... because I did ....as I am not impressed so far with the Taigen product ....they are a good step above Heng Long as they supply you with a lot of metal upgrades...but I have found their provided suspensions ...very limited and hard to adjust....I have also found that many Taigen metal "upgrades" aren't that great either.... So it really depends on your point of view...and the size of your Wallet

My wallet isn't so big....so I'd rather have four running pro version Heng Longs .... than just one Tamiya... or two Taigens...this based on a 2000 dollar start up...(you might be able to squeeze one more Taigen into that range maybe)...This is also based on brand spanking new models...not second hand which I rarely buy...though it would be the only time I would buy a Tamiya or maybe...and this is a big maybe ...a Taigen
I feel this is a big consideration... as with Heng Long you will have back ups should one even two break down...go into the modification stage...or whatever comes up...the rest...well...you're kind of stuck

JMHO... Good Luck with your Start up

ALPHA

PS. just and added note on Tamiya...their gearboxes are a mix of plastic brass and steel... not bad...but in comparison to steel gearboxes or even the white metal gearboxes in RTRs... no where near as durable IMO ...this is an important factor when upgrading your model.... Tamiyas are limited as far as their drive trains go..and require a good deal of modification should you change brand for parts...Mostly all the RTRs use the same mounting systems ...Tracks Sprockets Gearboxes and idlers can easily be changed out

[tomhugill]

PS. just and added note on Tamiya...their gearboxes are a mix of plastic brass and steel... not bad...but in comparison to steel gearboxes or even the white metal gearboxes in RTRs... no where near as durable IMO ...this is an important factor when upgrading your model.... Tamiyas are limited as far as their drive trains go..and require a good deal of modification should you change brand for parts...Mostly all the RTRs use the same mounting systems ...Tracks Sprockets Gearboxes and idlers can easily be changed out

Sorry but some of this just isn't true. the black steel reduction gearboxes are more durable. However the pot metal ones definitely are no where near as strong. Tamiya gearboxes will run perfectly and there's no need to upgrade them. They only start breaking if you use the 3:1 schumo gear reductions which put them under far more torque than they're designed to cope with.

Regarding the construction they have nylon brass and steel mix so the bits that need more strength have it (as you go further through the drive train the torque increases) so the bits furthest from the final drive are nylon then then bits further down are brass and the final drives are steel. This also makes them much smoother and quieter.

Upgrades wise you have the model spiegl ones, impact, eto are developing some very nice looking one. However unless you want really low ratios then the standard tamiya ones are fine.

Tamiya plastic is plenty durable and I've never had one of my tamiya break or crack.

[ALPHA]

PS. just and added note on Tamiya...their gearboxes are a mix of plastic brass and steel... not bad...but in comparison to steel gearboxes or even the white metal gearboxes in RTRs... no where near as durable IMO ...this is an important factor when upgrading your model.... Tamiyas are limited as far as their drive trains go..and require a good deal of modification should you change brand for parts...Mostly all the RTRs use the same mounting systems ...Tracks Sprockets Gearboxes and idlers can easily be changed out

Sorry but some of this just isn't true.

after reading what seems to be corrections.... a lot of what I said is true ...your post puts more emphasis as a matter of fact

the black steel reduction gearboxes are more durable. However the pot metal ones definitely are no where near as strong. Tamiya gearboxes will run perfectly and there's no need to upgrade them. They only start breaking if you use the 3:1 schumo gear reductions which put them under far more torque than they're designed to cope with.
Thing is they do break... schumo parts are hard to find (here).... so pretty much what I said... that they have limitations
Varied opinion on white metal gears... they are by far better than plastic....some have had problems with them....to date ...knock on wood ...I haven't

[quote}
Regarding the construction they have nylon brass and steel mix so the bits that need more strength have it (as you go further through the drive train the torque increases) so the bits furthest from the final drive are nylon then then bits further down are brass and the final drives are steel. This also makes them much smoother and quieter.

this is true...didn't say they were junk...said they had limitations... those plastic pieces can still split (usually between the teeth) by natural process...seen it a million times ...so just one of the limitations

Upgrades wise you have the model spiegl ones, impact, eto are developing some very nice looking one. However unless you want really low ratios then the standard tamiya ones are fine.

with fancy names come fancy prices IMO... I've seen the stainless IMPACTS...but they cost twice as much as a set of Walthersons ...so unless you have an unlimited budget... another limitation IMO

Tamiya plastic is plenty durable and I've never had one of my tamiya break or crack.

None of my Heng Long white metal or steel have given me any grief either... so on that statement...I would say we are even... though I will add I will never have to deal with the "plastic" cases or gears EVER

Bottom line Tom...is you are a Tamiya guy... and usually get your Tamiya's at good second hand prices...I would assume several from people like Robbo who might never finish it because of problems during assembly...or something like that .... I'm not taking anything away from Tamiya.... and we've had this discussion before.... but I like the affordability of the RTRs ...whether it be Heng Long or not....I don't care about the detail ...as that can always come later... this board and the many Tiger and other builds prove that ...not to mention adding detail to a Tamiya adds to the cost.... It's all about start off FOUNDATIONS... you can start high with a Tamiya... and go higher... so 2000 + dollars invested in a NEW start up .... to where with a RTR... the FOUNDATION... is more realistic...where it is either at a mid point or a very affordable 150 NEW start up.... there's a big difference ... and like I said in my first post... It's all up to SSGNT Robbo to decide where he wants to put his money at ...not me nor you can make that decision for him...all we can do is give him a rough idea with some PROs and CONs

ALPHA

PS...You also know Tom... I have only one Tamiya.... unlike you ...have not found as many merits to it ... I play with my Heng Longs... the Tamiya sits ..waiting to be outfitted with Heng Long parts ...thing is...everytime I add it all up... I buy another Heng Long and mod that

[jarndice]

My thinking is that should I be about to upgrade a Tank, I would not think twice about plunging a DREMEL into a HENG LONG or TAIGEN but I would need a very good reason to do the same to a £1,000 TAMIYA , I have said this before but it needs saying again, HENG LONG market their Tanks as TOYS and price them as such, TAMIYA's are not. shaun

[ALPHA]

My thinking is that should I be about to upgrade a Tank, I would not think twice about plunging a DREMEL into a HENG LONG or TAIGEN but I would need a very good reason to do the same to a £1,000 TAMIYA , I have said this before but it needs saying again, HENG LONG market their Tanks as TOYS and price them as such, TAMIYA's are not. shaun

Can't agree more... and even Tamiya ...even though they are not marketed the same a RTRs ... in the end it's still a toy tank.
Anyway hopefully there is enough information here for the Robbo to make up his mind

ALPHA

[scalawag]

I would have thought by now that anyone who uses this forum on any sort of regular basis would realise that trying to offer a positive opinion on any make other than H/L is likely to run into this sort of response these days.

Used to be that people on this forum would offer the positives and negatives of brands they like and leave comments on other brands to others who like those makes. But not anymore, some seem to feel the need to comment on everything.

Threads like this become pointless as they always seem to end up in this type of discussion now. Very boring and not very helpful from what I can see.

I don't contribute to "what should I buy" threads anymore. I don't see the point as they seem to all end up in this sort of "defend your favourite brand" discussion. I used to be quite happy to offer my opinions but with the responses that doing so tends to draw on this forum now I won't bother anymore.
SSGT Robbo if you are interested in what I think about what you should buy PM me.

[billpe]

The OP asked for the relative merits of some Tigers. Opinions are worth nothing if you can't back them up with experience of ownership. That might be harsh but there is a ton of misinformation in this thread which is confusing for a prospective owner. From prices to plastics, its just plain wrong.


If someone asked me about the merits of the HL, Tamiya and Mato Sherman, I wouldn't even respond to them because I own none of them

[ALPHA]

I would have thought by now that anyone who uses this forum on any sort of regular basis would realise that trying to offer a positive opinion on any make other than H/L is likely to run into this sort of response these days.

Used to be that people on this forum would offer the positives and negatives of brands they like and leave comments on other brands to others who like those makes. But not anymore, some seem to feel the need to comment on everything.

Threads like this become pointless as they always seem to end up in this type of discussion now. Very boring and not very helpful from what I can see.

I don't contribute to "what should I buy" threads anymore. I don't see the point as they seem to all end up in this sort of "defend your favourite brand" discussion. I used to be quite happy to offer my opinions but with the responses that doing so tends to draw on this forum now I won't bother anymore.
SSGT Robbo if you are interested in what I think about what you should buy PM me.

I see your point Scalawag... it is actually kind of sad that anyone has to defend a position of advice... I've had to do it many times... never understood why... as I just try to give advice.... only to be knocked on.... Doesn't bother me much...as I've never strayed from the way I buy and build

These are all toy tanks...no matter the brand...they all have ups and downs to them...but if there is an opinion or suggestion asked for.. I will give it in the best way possible...It's what the board is for... a new member won't know who to PM for what....reason the post is open... and voiced upon...just a little unfortunate PROS AND CONS get muddled in the process

ALPHA

[ALPHA]

The OP asked for the relative merits of some Tigers. Opinions are worth nothing if you can't back them up with experience of ownership. That might be harsh but there is a ton of misinformation in this thread which is confusing for a prospective owner. From prices to plastics, its just plain wrong.


If someone asked me about the merits of the HL, Tamiya and Mato Sherman, I wouldn't even respond to them because I own none of them

Well... if Robbo is doing some shopping around...then what is fact and what is fiction become clearer...I know he isn't interested in the Heng Long... but it does have merit...

What he is looking at is the Mato Metal Tiger...and the Tamiya.... both in the higher range of RC tanks.. As I stated initially... I would choose the Tamiya over the Mato...but agreed with Tanks that the Taigen does have it's merits at it's base cost
but it isn't up to me...nor anyone else...he is just seeking the Pros and Cons

Bottom line...there are a lot more cons to the Mato Metal Tiger...and more Pros for the Tamiya...the rest is just considerations


ALPHA

[ALPHA]

Another option Robbo

http://www.rctankwarfare.co.uk/forums/v ... 23&t=12950

ALPHA