Question about the stall current of this metal mod motor.

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BennieBlind
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Question about the stall current of this metal mod motor.

Post by BennieBlind »

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As seen in this photos I've placed the metal upgrade turret turning unit and combined it with the plastic of the 360 slip ring onto a metal ring. Bought at ForgeBear.

Unfortunately it ate the orange white signal cable for the recoil movement and came to an hold.

As a fair warning by the seller and manufacturer, that it can't be stalled otherwise it wil blow up stuff from the MFU, so it probably did.

Now I'm wondering what the working load is of this motor and if I should make a "fuse" in between.

What kind of stall current is this thing giving that the board can't take it?! The big motors draw big currents too isn't it?
What kind of AMP should this fuse be and will it stop from blowing up the Motherboard if it stalls in whatever way?

I'm on my third board now in 3 weeks and this is getting to expensive this way. Fried the first one up by touching it with my multi meter.

I need to slow down and think some stuff trough before I waste more time and money on this. A new board is underway from Germany.

I will make it with the plastic turret turning motor, plastic 360° IR ring and plastic IR turret to make the motor work less hard.

I find it strange that a manufacturer don't think this out before selling stuff like this. It's simply not compatible with the Taigen board this way.

I do love the setup and I'm turning the turret now on the smoke machine port and it runs flawless.

Hope someone can help me out figuring this out otherwise I've spend 33 pounds for nothing as it really takes down the awefull wobble of the turret in every direction!!!
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BennieBlind
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Re: Question about the stall current of this metal mod motor.

Post by BennieBlind »

I've did some cable guiding management and tidying the loose wires up by coiling the up behind the motor.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/10fqD53 ... p=drivesdk

Little preview run on video

I've looked for many datasheets of this so-called "130" 5 volt motor and it seems to be operating at a mere 250 Milli Amps but these measurements varying between manufacturers. When I get home after a week work I will hook up with the multi meter amp meter to see what it draws from the smoke unit output.
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Re: Question about the stall current of this metal mod motor.

Post by jarndice »

Once you have decided where the best place for the cable to be sited is then a dab of glue in the right place will save you a lot of cash. :thumbup: Small Cable ties are available and certainly help to keep the wiring tidy.
I think I am about to upset someone :haha:
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tankme
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Re: Question about the stall current of this metal mod motor.

Post by tankme »

I'm sure the ESC circuit for the rotation motor on the Taigen board is probably 3-5A as the Clark board is rated for 6A.

Stall amps and running amps are going to be different. That 250mA is probably a "no load" measurement. A large 350-500W motor that runs at 20A can pull over 100A as a stall current so stall current can be much higher than the no load measurement. Of course the motors in our 1/16 scale tanks usually cannot stall that high unless it's like larger than a 550 size.

I have a few of those metal rotation motors installed in tanks and haven't blown anything up with them and I don't fuse them, but I also put all wires in shrink tubing or wire looms to keep them out of the rotation gear. There are multiple ESCs (electronic speed controllers) on the MFU so I'm not sure what you think the connection is between the ESCs that drive the tracks has to do with the ESC circuit that drives the turret? Each ESC circuit will be rated for a different amperage, but bear in mind that the JST connector used to connect the motors to the board is only rated for 20A which is why the newer HL 6.x and 7.x boards now have wires directly soldered to the MFU.

As for a fuse for the rotation motors, I would probably use a 5A fuse if I were going to put a fuse on it. What doesn't make sense to me is that the whole board is burning out when you stall the rotation motor. Normally I would think that it would be only the rotation ESC that would be damaged. Do you get an electronics burning smell from it after it fails?

What size battery are you using on this (2S or 3S)?
Derek
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BennieBlind
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Re: Question about the stall current of this metal mod motor.

Post by BennieBlind »

Indeed only the turret rotation part of the board isn't providing any power to the little turret motor.
It gives around 5 volt on the pins without anything connected; but when I hook the motor zero volt
Everything else still works. That's why I plugged the rotation into the smoke unit output to have at least one direction turning.
It is driving as well but was just wondering if they need fuses that's all.

Battery is a Ni MH 7.4 volt 5000 mah.
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BennieBlind
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Re: Question about the stall current of this metal mod motor.

Post by BennieBlind »

From what I can make of the size of it, it seems to be a standard "130" 3 ~ 6 volt DC motor and is seen in many stuff like toys, house hold machines etc.

It really depends on the manufacturer what the specs are, so there isn't really a general datasheet for this type of motor.
I wonder if a fuse will burn fast enough to save the motherboard. Otherwise I will have to look for a better board than the stock MFU.

When searching on the internets and googling on 5 volt 130 dc motor (+ RC) for example, I'm getting specs between 70 ma free run, 250 ma load current, and stall currents 500 ~ 800 ma

https://components101.com/motors/toy-dc-motor

https://shop.pimoroni.com/products/brus ... 0369988691

When I come home, as I'm an Able Body Seaman and always at work one week and one week free I have to wait to experiment a bit further. I'm going to let my mod run and see what current it draws under load.
However I don't know if the starting current is much higher for milliseconds as I have been told.

Thats why I was puzzled why the working load of the main 380 engines can be like 10 amps or more? And was asking about this.
But as pointed out this can be operated in different sections of ESC apparently, which is a good thing I learned in this thread.

The metal housing of the turret rotating unit doesn't look like it can be opened like the plastic units found further in the turret. So i'm not keen of breaking it open for examining what kind of motor
there is exactly.
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tankme
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Re: Question about the stall current of this metal mod motor.

Post by tankme »

I think part of the issue is that the plastic rotation gearboxes have a clutch system on them so they don't stall the motor. The metal ones don't have the clutch so when a wire gets caught in there it doesn't slip like the plastic units. Some ESCs have stall protection built into them where they can take a stalled motor for a few seconds before damage occurs. Apparently the HL MFU doesn't have that on the ESC circuit on the rotation gearbox. They probably did that because the gearbox normally has a slipper clutch on it.
Derek
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BennieBlind
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Re: Question about the stall current of this metal mod motor.

Post by BennieBlind »

So I came home yesterday and did a test with a multimeter in between the MFU (Taigen) and the turret motor (DKLM):

Load current 300 ~ 500 mA
Start current about 800 mA
Stall current for 3 seconds about 1,3 A

This is giving a good indication that I will need a fuse around 1 A , I guess. I stalled the rotation with my hand.

Funny enough it didn't blow up the smoke unit circuit part of the MFU as it seems to handle higher current anyway because of the heat element or something.

In the meantime I've got a new board and some other stuff came in so will run my crippled tank until I find something
to put a fuse in between. See how it goes. If my 3rd ! board is breaking up again I will take the metal stuff away and have to deal with the whole turret part being plastic. If that is the case I'm going to sell it all as I consider the Taigen elektronics garbage by now.

I bought a whole package IR stuff to make the tank go to battle only to learn it is'nt compatible with other brand tanks.
Should have bought a Tamiya from the start I guess.
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