Calling All Panther G Experts: Historical Accuracy Questions

If you have a tank query and you can't find the answer anywhere else, post here. (TIP - Check for answers in FAQ, use the 'search' facility or even check this board before posting here).
Forum rules
If your question is electronics related please post it in one of the relevant boards here: viewforum.php?f=31
User avatar
STHV
Lance Corporal
Posts: 249
Joined: Thu May 17, 2018 9:47 pm
Location: Hertfordshire, UK

Re: Calling All Panther G Experts: Historical Accuracy Quest

Post by STHV »

Here is an Ambush camo Panther G with Zimmerit
Image

Ambush camo was first applied 19th August 1944. Zimmerit stopped being applied on 7th September 1944 and later in September a small batch of MAN Panthers were fitted with the steel tired roadwheels so i don't think the two would have coincided and I cannot find any images or references of any steel wheel Panthers with zimmerit
The extra roadwheels were almost entirely down to the crew/unit etc so unless you are doing a specific vehicle go nuts basically
The road wheels would have been painted in single colours of RAL 7028 Dark yellow, RAL 8017 red-brown and RAL 6003 Olive-green
I can only find mounted MG42's on halftracks so i doubt any would have been mounted on a tank as the AA machine guns were typically cross compatible with the coaxial or bow machine guns
The curved exhaust hoods where introduced in late January 1945, the flame mufflers were introduced in October 1944
You would also have to replace the Idler wheel with the earlier version as the self cleaning idler was introduced in October 1944

If you want to get this Panther as accurate as possible get a copy of Panzer Tracts 5-3, it has tons of diagrams for all the external components and has a section going through when modifications were added
Panther Ausf D (WIP)
Panther Ausf A mit Brückentafel (WIP)
Panther Ausf G (WIP)
Jagdpanther G2 (WIP)
Tiger II (WIP)
Pz.Kpfw. VIII Maus V2 (WIP)
Pz.Kpfw. II Ausf L (WIP)
Sd.Kfz. 234/2 (WIP)
Leopard 1A4/1A1A1 (WIP)
Turm III (WIP)
VK 45.01 (H) (WIP)
Tiger6
Warrant Officer 2nd Class
Posts: 1286
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:38 pm

Re: Calling All Panther G Experts: Historical Accuracy Quest

Post by Tiger6 »

^ That's one of the photos of the MHN Panthers I was looking at. You can see the disk pattern quite clearly around the turret and between the exhaust stacks.
User avatar
Herr Dr. Professor
Lieutenant
Posts: 3462
Joined: Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:48 pm
Location: Southern Wisconsin USA

Re: Calling All Panther G Experts: Historical Accuracy Quest

Post by Herr Dr. Professor »

:D Wow, Eric, you started an edumacational thread here. It’s your Panther G, so go with your own desires. To me, it’s the learning that counts: make it unique or historically impeccable. Either way in the end you get bragging rights about what you know is accurate or inaccurate. :D
User avatar
HERMAN BIX
Brigadier
Posts: 10235
Joined: Sun Jan 12, 2014 12:15 am
Location: Gold Coast,Australia

Re: Calling All Panther G Experts: Historical Accuracy Quest

Post by HERMAN BIX »

https://ww2aircraft.net/forum/media/a-k ... 29910/full

Heres a G with a Zim turret and none on the hull...............a repair job prior to BOTB perhaps ?
HL JAGDPANTHER,HL TIGER 1,HL PzIII MUNITIONSCHLEPPER, HL KT OCTOPUS,HL PANTHER ZU-FUSS,HL STuG III,HL T34/85 BEDSPRING,
HL PZIV MALTA,MATORRO JAGDTIGER,HL F05 TIGER,TAMIYA KT,HL PANTHERDOZER,HL EARLY PANTHER G,TAIGEN/RAMINATOR T34/76,
HL AN-BRI-RAM SU-85
Tiger6
Warrant Officer 2nd Class
Posts: 1286
Joined: Fri Mar 09, 2018 10:38 pm

Re: Calling All Panther G Experts: Historical Accuracy Quest

Post by Tiger6 »

No, that came direct from the factory like that. The Turret shells had zimmerit applied prior to assembly to the hull, and they had more turrets done than hulls when the order came to stop.
The Duel in the Mist series documents 3 or 4 Panthers of 1st SS Pz Div with zimmerit on the turret only during the battle of the bulge, all newly built, from a mixture of MAN, MNH and Daimler (This particular one is a Befehlspanther, produced by MAN - identifiable by the serial number on the Glacis plate).

Roddy MacDougall and Martin Block's book states that there was very little in the way of factory rebuilds done, the German system simply did not produce significant quantities of spare parts with which to fix them - all available parts were used to build new tanks. Off the top of my head, they state only about 180 tanks total were returned to MAN for rebuild, but progress was very slow.
User avatar
HERMAN BIX
Brigadier
Posts: 10235
Joined: Sun Jan 12, 2014 12:15 am
Location: Gold Coast,Australia

Re: Calling All Panther G Experts: Historical Accuracy Quest

Post by HERMAN BIX »

So that gives the loophole to have a turret with Zim on a hull without Zim, but perhaps with later exhausts, spare roadwheels where was convenient for the crew, and a Hinterhalt camo paint job on some of it at least, if not all........ :think:

Just build it Mr EAO, as you can see, there is sufficient historical 'fog' so as to allow you to build a tank you want(and I can see the want) without concern for judgement of historic plausibility.............Hells Bells, I did a Panther with Rockets hanging off the sides of it, just to see if it COULD have worked 8O
If I got any flak over that concept at the time I would have told them to bash it in their clacker :eh:

Get on with it mate & please keep us all in on the caper while you do ;)

Can't wait :thumbup:
HL JAGDPANTHER,HL TIGER 1,HL PzIII MUNITIONSCHLEPPER, HL KT OCTOPUS,HL PANTHER ZU-FUSS,HL STuG III,HL T34/85 BEDSPRING,
HL PZIV MALTA,MATORRO JAGDTIGER,HL F05 TIGER,TAMIYA KT,HL PANTHERDOZER,HL EARLY PANTHER G,TAIGEN/RAMINATOR T34/76,
HL AN-BRI-RAM SU-85
User avatar
HERMAN BIX
Brigadier
Posts: 10235
Joined: Sun Jan 12, 2014 12:15 am
Location: Gold Coast,Australia

Re: Calling All Panther G Experts: Historical Accuracy Quest

Post by HERMAN BIX »

[quote="STHV"]Here is an Ambush camo Panther G with Zimmerit
Image

Lovely picture...................a better back end than Giselle Bundschen :shh:
HL JAGDPANTHER,HL TIGER 1,HL PzIII MUNITIONSCHLEPPER, HL KT OCTOPUS,HL PANTHER ZU-FUSS,HL STuG III,HL T34/85 BEDSPRING,
HL PZIV MALTA,MATORRO JAGDTIGER,HL F05 TIGER,TAMIYA KT,HL PANTHERDOZER,HL EARLY PANTHER G,TAIGEN/RAMINATOR T34/76,
HL AN-BRI-RAM SU-85
Biasphere1
Lance Corporal
Posts: 133
Joined: Sat Oct 03, 2020 4:34 am

Re: Calling All Panther G Experts: Historical Accuracy Quest

Post by Biasphere1 »

Yo EAO join the game War Thunder and have a look at this tank in the German tree and you'll be amazed at the accuracy of their models.
Ambush camo can be seen in the (google) Hinterhalt-Tarnung camo here is something from another site .https://www.flamesofwar.com/hobby.aspx? ... e%20canopy.

There's heaps of stuff there on the google.You'll see real tanks to as a to go by thing.
User avatar
STHV
Lance Corporal
Posts: 249
Joined: Thu May 17, 2018 9:47 pm
Location: Hertfordshire, UK

Re: Calling All Panther G Experts: Historical Accuracy Quest

Post by STHV »

Biasphere1 wrote:Yo EAO join the game War Thunder and have a look at this tank in the German tree and you'll be amazed at the accuracy of their models.
Ambush camo can be seen in the (google) Hinterhalt-Tarnung camo here is something from another site .https://www.flamesofwar.com/hobby.aspx? ... e%20canopy.

There's heaps of stuff there on the google.You'll see real tanks to as a to go by thing.
The war thunder models are awful, the only accurate one is the Ersatz M10. I have even recently submitted a bug report just on the Ausf D and that alone took ages because of how much is wrong
Panther Ausf D (WIP)
Panther Ausf A mit Brückentafel (WIP)
Panther Ausf G (WIP)
Jagdpanther G2 (WIP)
Tiger II (WIP)
Pz.Kpfw. VIII Maus V2 (WIP)
Pz.Kpfw. II Ausf L (WIP)
Sd.Kfz. 234/2 (WIP)
Leopard 1A4/1A1A1 (WIP)
Turm III (WIP)
VK 45.01 (H) (WIP)
Biasphere1
Lance Corporal
Posts: 133
Joined: Sat Oct 03, 2020 4:34 am

Re: Calling All Panther G Experts: Historical Accuracy Quest

Post by Biasphere1 »

STHV wrote:
Biasphere1 wrote:Yo EAO join the game War Thunder and have a look at this tank in the German tree and you'll be amazed at the accuracy of their models.
Ambush camo can be seen in the (google) Hinterhalt-Tarnung camo here is something from another site .https://www.flamesofwar.com/hobby.aspx? ... e%20canopy.

There's heaps of stuff there on the google.You'll see real tanks to as a to go by thing.
The war thunder models are awful, the only accurate one is the Ersatz M10. I have even recently submitted a bug report just on the Ausf D and that alone took ages because of how much is wrong
They can't be too bad as many of the best 3D tank files are made from them time and again . There camo's are technically very correct as well. A great source for what the OP is after.
Remember the War Thunder people mapped and measured most every tank left on Earth to get their files and have access to most every historic technical manual on the subject as well so technically they're dam close.
Last edited by Biasphere1 on Thu May 20, 2021 3:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Post Reply

Return to “General Questions”