Is a track left or right handed?

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43rdRecceReg
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Is a track left or right handed?

Post by 43rdRecceReg »

Well, if tracks have cleats on the outside for Winter, it's easy to tell how they should be fitted. But how can you tell how tracks should be orientated? Hmm.. I found this interesting wee contribution from 'Panzer Bob' on the 'handedness' of tracks, on the Finescale modelling forum.


*...Hi!

The "handedness" in Dragon "Magic Track" link-sets neatly reflects the reality of how tracks were assembled on most German WWII tanks: Most used a "dry-pin" "dead" track with links connected by a metal hinge-pin, and tracks sagged between rollers depending on the track-tension. The subtle but important detail is that these pins were inserted from the vehicle side thru the link. In some cases, the pin was then secured with a cotter-pin at the outer end. In other cases - notably on Panzer 38(t), and I think Panthers too -, the pin was left free-floating! These floating pins were kept in their place by a "strike-plate" or "pin-knocker" which pushed or tapped pins back into the track as the vehicle moved along.

Couple this detail with another - the links have an "obvious" asymmetrical form with a putative "front end". The links assemble into tracks with an apparent directional bias which kit instructions usually show for correct assembly. In reality, the pin could be inserted from either side of the link in Panzer I, early II, III and IV tracks, and maybe in others, too! As those pins "always" have to insert from the vehicle side, (specially if they must be knocked back into place...) this meant that the track could be placed facing either way! As long as the pins were running from inside to out!

But... ALL the links on a side have to run in the same direction. You cannot of course reverse only some of a run!

IF one looks at many pictures of these vehicles, you will find some with "reversed" tracks and even cases where one set is running one way, and the other side reversed! Quite common on the Pz 1 and II, less common on larger vehicles. One of the special cases apparently occurred with those modified tracks called "winterketten", where the links MUST be fitted with the extension piece to the outside. That famous StuG III which was recovered several years ago with the winterketten on it may be one of these, where all the links were "one side" and so the other side was assembled "in reverse". While I am pretty sure that both "left" and "right" links were available, it is pretty likely that both types may not have been equally available all the time and everywhere... So crew may well have been allowed to "reverse" one side as needed.

Now... as the Magic Tracks have the pin-ends molded on, it is very difficult to show this on most builds - unless you have two kits and can use both "left sides" on one tank! IF one does fruils or MK pinned tracks, you can create the "reversed" sets by pinning from the "wrong side" - IF doing Magics... and you only have one tank kit... you'll have to cut and swap all the pin-heads. TEDIOUS.

Cheers! ..........."

Some tracks appear to have 'chevrons' on them. I'd always assumed that where the chevrons formed a forward-pointing 'V'shape , this would indicate a forward travelling tracks, as the V' would grip better. At least, That's what I assumed. :think:
Here's a couple of pics I took at Munster's Panzer Museum, back in 2018 (when it was safe to travel, and not catch the plague en route...)
Have a look at the tracks on this full-size plastic replica of the Tiger 1, at Munster. On the horizontal bars, you can see embossed chevrons. If the tracks were fitted the wrong way round, these 'V's would face backwards.
Image
Tamiya always say that track pins should be fitted from the inside- going out. I think this is also how track pins were fitted on full-scale tanks. If anybody knows, do pipe up.
This Tank Destroyer has forward-facing triangles between the cross pieces. Again, did this improve grips, and clear crap away? :) :think:
Image
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Re: Is a track left or right handed?

Post by Rad_Schuhart »

That stug like most panzer III and IV in worldwide museums nowadays have the tracks the wrong way.

You only have to see old original black and white pics to see the inmense majority of tanks have the tracks the other way.

Most of the museums have them placed the wrong way because the people that restorated the tanks had no idea about tanks. That includes using hardware store paint instead of using similar to original colors and many more.

One restored panzer IV in a museum in Spain has the tracks the wrong way as well and a friend that works there told me it is like that because nobody told the restorers how to place the tracks. Go and figure...

And uh, that tiger in your pic has one set of tracks well placed and the other inverted.
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Re: Is a track left or right handed?

Post by 43rdRecceReg »

Rad_Schuhart wrote:That stug like most panzer III and IV in worldwide museums nowadays have the tracks the wrong way.

You only have to see old original black and white pics to see the inmense majority of tanks have the tracks the other way.

Most of the museums have them placed the wrong way because the people that restorated the tanks had no idea about tanks. That includes using hardware store paint instead of using similar to original colors and many more.

One restored panzer IV in a museum in Spain has the tracks the wrong way as well and a friend that works there told me it is like that because nobody told the restorers how to place the tracks. Go and figure...

And uh, that tiger in your pic has one set of tracks well placed and the other inverted.
Thanks, Rad! Now show us some pics of Tanks with correctly fitted tracks :) ;) Also, tell us why they have the 'correct' orientation.
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Re: Is a track left or right handed?

Post by HERMAN BIX »

I have read that there is an unsubstantiated claim that Panthers were sometimes fitted with tracks reversed to reduce the strain on the final drives.
I take my guide from period pictures, though even these can be a case of expediency just to get the things repaired and get their asses out of danger rather than ensuring they are on the “right” way !!
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Re: Is a track left or right handed?

Post by Kaczor »

43rdRecceReg wrote:
Rad_Schuhart wrote:Thanks, Rad! Now show us some pics of Tanks with correctly fitted tracks :) ;) Also, tell us why they have the 'correct' orientation.
vol14_28.jpg
Simple answer- it was designed that way. Same with car tires, you could put it it in reverse but it will behave differently (i.e. removing water).
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Re: Is a track left or right handed?

Post by Rad_Schuhart »

43rdRecceReg wrote:
Thanks, Rad! Now show us some pics of Tanks with correctly fitted tracks :) ;) Also, tell us why they have the 'correct' orientation.
Just google "Panzer IV black and white" Panzer III will work too: https://www.google.com/search?q=panzer+ ... ChS0zoHR9M

One of the thousand pics you can find in that link:

Image

Most (maybe all) of them have the tracks in the original and correct position, which is the opposite to that stug.

And why is that correct? That is a question for the german engineers that designed it, not for this humble worm that answers here.
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Re: Is a track left or right handed?

Post by jarndice »

This is a question that has bugged this Forum since I have been a member and probably long before,
I used to be certain that the Panzer 4 tracks had a "Right" way and a "Wrong" way of fitting but having ruined my eyesight looking at pictures of PZ4s ( We all have different ideas about smut :haha: ) there are more than enough examples depicting tracks on PZ4s running in both directions to muddy the waters of that argument,
So yes there is a correct way but as with some heavy truck tyres that are clearly marked with a direction of travel arrow they can and indeed often are fitted the "Wrong" way round.
I have been here before but who is the strongest man in a Tanks crew ? The loader, not very bright but good at lifting heavy things, If when the tracks have been laid out ready to go on the tank while in the field whose going to tell the loader that he has got them the wrong way round :lolno:
I think I am about to upset someone :haha:
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Re: Is a track left or right handed?

Post by Son of a gun-ner »

Rad_Schuhart wrote:not for this humble worm that answers here.
You speak for yourself worm :P

What I'm about to man-splain can be easily understood when you look closely at the right Stug track (our left) that Roy posted. Which has its tracks on the wrong way around, try to imagine the tracks the correct way around while you look at the differences between the link edges.

Tanks are meant to travel forwards most of the time, ninety something percent of the time, on track links that are basically hinges. In the case of most WW2 German tanks, those link sections are different on the lead and trailing edges.
When the links are all connected together and now wrapped around the sprockets as in the Stug picture, you can see both the link edges where the sprocket teeth are. One edge has the rounded sections that contain the pins, with not a lot of meat between the sprocket teeth and the pin, I'll call that the trailing edge. Whereas, the lead edge that has the long "foot" (part that touches the ground first), has the long "foot" edge that's in contact with the sprocket teeth, plus it has more surface area to offer the teeth, giving more "meat" between the pin and the sprocket teeth. Therefore, the lead edge can take a lot more wear and tear from the sprocket teeth than the trailing edge.
On top of that, the lead edge has its pin retaining sections pushed against the pin in forwards, which in turn pushes the pin retaining sections on the trailing edge against/towards the main body of the link. Whereas in reverse, those pin retaining sections are pulled.
Yes, the links are pulled towards the sprockets in either travel direction, but those links have a little less force applied to them than when wrapped around a round sprocket with tapered teeth while they try to ride up.

As for the tapering between the "feet," I don't think they are there to make a difference to road safety, they are slightly tapered for slightly more strength over being straight, while the web between can be thinner to save on material.
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Re: Is a track left or right handed?

Post by 43rdRecceReg »

:) :S Yes, I agree they're meant to travel forwards mosy of the time, Mick :D
Except... that is... from Italian tanks, which were rumoured to have one forward gear, and five reverse :lolno: Then again,
Panther crews were always instructed to keep the tank's strongest armour (front glacis and mantlet) facing the enemy, as much as possible. So much so, in fact, that tanks would withdraw in reverse- sometimes over a considerable distance.
Many tracks look symmetrical, and so it's difficult to tell which should go on the left, and which on the right. Look at this one:
Symmetrical track
Symmetrical track
Symmetrical tank track.jpg (162 KiB) Viewed 2917 times
This is fitted to the left side (from the driver's view point). My query would be, should that forward-facing 'V' shape be pointing backwards on the other side, or should both sides have the 'v' facing forwards? That's really what I'm getting at.
Symmetry was the norm for most tracks, simply as a matter of expediency. It made no logistical sense to carry two types of spare track. The exception being the winter tracks with cleats.
There's a mention of the practicality issue in this piece on the Tiger 1's track by David Byrden.
http://tiger1.info/EN/Tracks.html
Byrden's take on Tiger 1 tracks
Byrden's take on Tiger 1 tracks
Click to ENLARGE this pic. :)
It strikes me that with truly symmetrical tracks, the only determining factor on how they should be fitted would be access to the pins; how they're fitted, locked, and removed.
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Re: Is a track left or right handed?

Post by Son of a gun-ner »

Symmetrical tracks like the Sherman's were ambidextrous, it made no difference to what side they went on, the connectors with their tightening wedges were exactly the same on both sides of a track, and the duckbills could be fitted to either side.
But, I do wonder about the "V" shape on the Sherman tracks, I would have thought an upside down V would have given more grip in a forwards direction.

Ok, some times a tank would have to tactically reverse, but tanks were still designed more for forwards travel, and in the majority of cases a German tank would have done many more miles in its forward gears.
Above I was giving a reason for those Stug tracks being the wrong way around, and why the the tracks have a correct way around.
Maybe as the Stug was more a defensive piece of armour, it had its tracks on more for reversing back into new defensive positions as the war was nearing its end ;)
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