Horizon Hobby.

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Postby jarndice » Wed Aug 09, 2017 11:38 am

I needed a pair of 3 bladed 10 x 6 propellers, I soon discovered they are not overly common,
I went to "Horizon Hobby's" Site and found the last pair in stock, I ordered them and I was told they would arrive on the 10th,
I got a card through the letter box this morning (9th) telling me that a parcel was waiting to be delivered to me but there was an OUTSTANDING CUSTOMS CHARGE >:< >:< ,
Well done Horizon Hobby not only do you charge me for the postage but you stick me for £12.26 Customs duty instead of including it in the price of the postage,
It does not help that I found the same product on E-Bay from China for half the price and FREEPOST after ordering from these rip off merchants.
A valuable lesson learned.
Shaun.

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Postby tomhugill » Wed Aug 09, 2017 12:29 pm

Hold on your moaning about getting hit by a customs charge after ordering something from the states? That's pretty much a certainty.

Horizon hobby haven't stuck you with anything, aside from getting your items here a day early. If you can get the same thing from China for half the price why didn't you?

Imo this doesn't belong in the black list.
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Postby jarndice » Wed Aug 09, 2017 12:55 pm

All very well Tom EXCEPT I ordered the items from their UK site !!
And I found the Chinese dealer after I had already placed my order.DOHH.
Shaun.

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Postby silversurfer1947 » Wed Aug 09, 2017 1:25 pm

That raises an interesting legal question. If there is no mention of liability for customs duty in the small print, then I would suggest they are in breach of contract. My legal knowledge is rather old and pre-dates the invention of internet shopping. My recollection of the Sale of Goods Act is that you have made an offer to purchase the good for the price advertised. By taking your money, they have accepted your offer to buy at that price. Hence, as you can not get hold of your goods without paying an additional sum they have breached the original contract - unless, as I said, there is something in their terms and conditions about customs fees.

Terms and conditions are something that in reality, very few people read. They can be very detailed. I remember once looking at the T & Cs for iTunes, which ran to nearly 200 pages IIRC.
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Postby tomhugill » Wed Aug 09, 2017 1:42 pm

jarndice wrote:All very well Tom EXCEPT I ordered the items from their UK site !!
And I found the Chinese dealer after I had already placed my order.DOHH.
Shaun.


In that case I take it all back Shaun and ask for your forgiveness! I thought they were a US
only outlet!
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Postby tomhugill » Wed Aug 09, 2017 2:57 pm

Son of a gun-ner wrote:
tomhugill wrote:
jarndice wrote:All very well Tom EXCEPT I ordered the items from their UK site !!
And I found the Chinese dealer after I had already placed my order.DOHH.
Shaun.


In that case I take it all back Shaun and ask for your forgiveness! I thought they were a US
only outlet!

Well, I was in total agreement with Tom till I read further, would have been handy to have had all the relevant information in the first post :P

As for terms and conditions, if they contravene your basic consumer rights, they can't stand. It's like that line a lot of traders use thinking it gets them off the hook, 'sold as seen' that's one that's been tested in the courts, totally meaningless. But sadly people fall for it.

Gov.org has a site for consumer rights for everyone to use, sadly people don't know.

As for this vendor, if they've stated shipped from UK, then they owe Shaun the fees. But if they stated shipped from the states, afraid not.

Take it up with PayPal Shaun.

As for customs charges, I've ordered tons of stuff from the states in the past, only been caught three times for charges :D

Mick.


They seem to have tightened up on it considerably. Also I've found Americans won't mark the value down on the customs declaration as it's considered mail fraud which I was told is a felony
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Postby jarndice » Wed Aug 09, 2017 3:36 pm

I have ordered parts from American dealers as many of us have,
I do it with reluctance because of the high postal charges But whoever I have bought from in the USA everything was upfront,
I have never had to pay for a parcel to be delivered after the order was cleared for delivery,
I went to Horizon Hobby because it had as well as the HQ site in the USA a UK site,
Like a fool I thought the product would come from there, Wrong again.
I don't care that Customs make a charge, I do mind that it is not included in the initial purchase price and Postage.
You can call it what you want, I call it a rip off simply because Horizon Hobby knew of the charge but to con mugs like me into buying from them in the Mistaken belief that the product is cheaper than the competition they forget to include this extra cost.
Shaun.
Last edited by jarndice on Wed Aug 09, 2017 3:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby jarndice » Wed Aug 09, 2017 3:48 pm

Mick I have to be fair to other American Dealers It is not their fault that the American Postal charges and Customs duties are outrageous, :thumbdown:
My beef is with being taken for an idiot because this shyster conveniently forgot to tell me of this extra charge when I made the order and paid for the product. :wtf:
I would love to buy from "IMEX" in Florida but it is the extra postal costs that stop me,
It makes me wonder how much trade is being lost by the USA because of such costs.
As you say thank goodness for British dealers and if Dave starts selling large scale R/C aircraft parts I will be beating a path to his door. :clap:
Shaun.

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Postby silversurfer1947 » Wed Aug 09, 2017 3:48 pm

Looking at their web site, the .co.uk is actually operated by a German company, and it states that German law applies. However, the basics are as I set out above. I can not find anything about customs duty or goods being shipped from the US.
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Postby X82d Pathfinder » Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:45 pm

America doesn't have VAT, nor are there Tariffs on toys. That is the EU/UK adding those as duties and fees. There are no tariffs on toys being imported into the U.S. or those exported from. Horizion Hobby is HUGE company and has been around for years and with good reputation. Your anger is misguided. The U.S. does not set Tariffs/Fees or Taxation or collect them.
-Dan
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Postby Tiger6 » Fri Aug 09, 2019 8:55 pm

X82d Pathfinder wrote:America doesn't have VAT,


Wrong! Many states have a sales tax (Michigan was 6% when I lived there, and unlike the EU where it applies only to the original sale, tax is applicable if you sold an item second hand!) and several of them have started forcing the larger vendors to collect it on their behalf on orders that are shipped to their state, or again in the case of Michigan, if that vendor has a physical location within that state irrespective of which state the goods were being shipped from.

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Postby X82d Pathfinder » Sun Aug 18, 2019 7:08 am

Sales tax is NOT VAT. It's a sales tax. You need to learn the difference between VAT ( Value Added Tax) and sales tax. I know all about the taxes, The US does NOT collect tax on behalf of other countries, nor does it collect sales tax for those items sold outside the U.S. If there is VAT and import duties added, Its by customs of the nation it is shipped to. The U.S. tax code also doesn't collect duties or taxes on toys if they are listed as such in their documents. I'm an Airline pilot and I have dealt with this issue for some time as I pick up figures from all over Europe on a regular basis. I simply have to declare them and do so as "Toys".
-Keith
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Postby Tiger6 » Mon Aug 19, 2019 1:57 pm

You are correct in that the US does not charge sales tax on outgoing parcels, but I don't think anyone in this thread suggested that they did? Certainly the majority of people in this thread know that EU vendors should drop the VAT when the parcel is going the other way.

To the other point; having lived there for 6 years I can assure you that all practical terms for the end consumer, Michigan sales and usage tax is the same as our VAT - right down to the identical requirement that residents would be expected to declare and pay it on their overseas purchases when they returned to the US from their trips - irrespective of what it was they had bought :wave:
Think in terms of US = EU, US States = EU member countries, and you will see similarities quite quickly.

The only real difference is that there isn't a State Treasury official waiting to collect his 'slice of the action' at Detroit Wayne County Airport when you land :haha:

Source for those interested: https://www.michigan.gov/taxes/0,4676,7 ... --,00.html

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Postby Max-U52 » Mon Aug 19, 2019 2:12 pm

Technically, I'm supposed to declare every item that I buy on the internet and then submit 6% to the Michigan state government for sales tax. And everybody pays attention to that. ;)
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Postby Tiger6 » Mon Aug 19, 2019 2:22 pm

Lol yeah, there was a reason why they changed the old 'honesty box' policy over to forcing retailers in other states to collect their tax on their behalf (threshold is $100,000 or 200 transactions to the state per year, for those interested)

(For the record - I never stuck around long enough to get my Green card, so I was exempt as a non-resident)

Also - Texas also wants their 6.25% on your foreign purchases:
https://comptroller.texas.gov/taxes/sales/use-tax.php

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Postby X82d Pathfinder » Tue Aug 20, 2019 11:40 pm

Tiger6 wrote:
X82d Pathfinder wrote:America doesn't have VAT,


Wrong! Many states have a sales tax (Michigan was 6% when I lived there, and unlike the EU where it applies only to the original sale, tax is applicable if you sold an item second hand!) and several of them have started forcing the larger vendors to collect it on their behalf on orders that are shipped to their state, or again in the case of Michigan, if that vendor has a physical location within that state irrespective of which state the goods were being shipped from.


You said I was wrong here, did you not? I'm right. There is NO VAT. The US does NOT charge tariffs on toys or hobby products UNLESS they have a hazardous content, ie thinners and such. I am involved with the U.S. owner/ distributor for Scale 75. I deal with the AA freight paperwork and laws regarding import/export. I deal with them in Spain all the time.
Sales tax is NEVER charged to any non-U.S. resident. Some states collect taxes on items that are sold where the distributor/ manufacturer warehouses their product in that state. So, as I stated. The VAT/Tariff/Taxes are at the hands of UK Customs. You didn't read the OP's statement completely. He's in the UK. I addressed shipment U.S. to UK.
-Dan
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