Building a Mid-Production Normandy Tiger 1
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This section is for posting a build log of your Heng Long tank.
Questions relating to issues you are having with your tank(s) should be posted in the General Questions forum here: viewforum.php?f=14
This section is for posting a build log of your Heng Long tank.
Questions relating to issues you are having with your tank(s) should be posted in the General Questions forum here: viewforum.php?f=14
- tanks_for_the_memory
- Sergeant
- Posts: 501
- Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2011 4:50 pm
- Location: London
Re: Building a Mid-Production Normandy Tiger 1
Hi Fred,
I understand your shock...
When I started this build there was a lot I thought I knew about the evolution of the Tiger - but I was wrong a lot of the time!
If you look at some of the pictures above of my build you will see that I dealt with this. But here are some more to make it clearer:
If you look carefully you can see the trunking for the Feifel cleaners and the vertical rods for the clamps.
Basically, the mid-production Tigers still had the metal trunking for the Feifel air cleaners and the mounts on the engine hatch. These disappeared when they started adding the gun clamp to the rear of the engine deck.
And yes, the Voyager clamps are much, much easier than the Aber ones!
Finally, here is a view of the front headlight mount on the real thing:
Note that the zimmerit on the Saumur Tiger 1 was 'refreshed' post-war and, although I have seen contemporary photos showing the zimmerit covering the vertical part of the bracket (as here) I have never seen it on the driver's visor (but David may prove me wrong!)
I understand your shock...
When I started this build there was a lot I thought I knew about the evolution of the Tiger - but I was wrong a lot of the time!
If you look at some of the pictures above of my build you will see that I dealt with this. But here are some more to make it clearer:
If you look carefully you can see the trunking for the Feifel cleaners and the vertical rods for the clamps.
Basically, the mid-production Tigers still had the metal trunking for the Feifel air cleaners and the mounts on the engine hatch. These disappeared when they started adding the gun clamp to the rear of the engine deck.
And yes, the Voyager clamps are much, much easier than the Aber ones!
Finally, here is a view of the front headlight mount on the real thing:
Note that the zimmerit on the Saumur Tiger 1 was 'refreshed' post-war and, although I have seen contemporary photos showing the zimmerit covering the vertical part of the bracket (as here) I have never seen it on the driver's visor (but David may prove me wrong!)
Last edited by tanks_for_the_memory on Thu Jun 09, 2016 12:04 am, edited 3 times in total.
My Mid-Production Normandy Tiger 1 build thread: http://www.rctankwarfare.co.uk/forums/v ... =22&t=8350
- SovereignZuul
- Corporal
- Posts: 452
- Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2012 11:50 pm
- Location: Connecticut, USA
Re: Building a Mid-Production Normandy Tiger 1
TFTM,
Great to see so much progress. She's really coming together, can't imagine you have much more work to go, but we know how it goes.
Still rooting for you,
Sov
Great to see so much progress. She's really coming together, can't imagine you have much more work to go, but we know how it goes.
Still rooting for you,
Sov
My Build Thread: http://www.rctankwarfare.co.uk/forums/v ... 22&t=10204
- HERMAN BIX
- Brigadier
- Posts: 10321
- Joined: Sun Jan 12, 2014 12:15 am
- Location: Gold Coast,Australia
Re: Building a Mid-Production Normandy Tiger 1
Have you locked in your camo pattern Mr Tanks ?
No last moment change of mind!?
Must say I would be a nervous piss-wreck getting this tank to this point knowing that the paint is the Cognac in the ballon glass moment & all the pressure that goes with it !
Watching as always
No last moment change of mind!?
Must say I would be a nervous piss-wreck getting this tank to this point knowing that the paint is the Cognac in the ballon glass moment & all the pressure that goes with it !
Watching as always
HL JAGDPANTHER,HL TIGER 1,HL PzIII MUNITIONSCHLEPPER, HL KT OCTOPUS,HL PANTHER ZU-FUSS,HL STuG III,HL T34/85 BEDSPRING,
HL PZIV MALTA,MATORRO JAGDTIGER,HL F05 TIGER,TAMIYA KT,HL PANTHERDOZER,HL EARLY PANTHER G,TAIGEN/RAMINATOR T34/76,
HL AN-BRI-RAM SU-85
HL PZIV MALTA,MATORRO JAGDTIGER,HL F05 TIGER,TAMIYA KT,HL PANTHERDOZER,HL EARLY PANTHER G,TAIGEN/RAMINATOR T34/76,
HL AN-BRI-RAM SU-85
- tanks_for_the_memory
- Sergeant
- Posts: 501
- Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2011 4:50 pm
- Location: London
Re: Building a Mid-Production Normandy Tiger 1
Gentlemen,
I note your kind words of warning... rest assured that both this Tiger and I are (almost) ready for the final denouement.
There are a few more things to attend to - the turret stowage box for one. And of course even once the dunkelgelb starts to go on I have all the fun of painting tools, wrestling with towing cables and such like. But it will be a summer of fun, fun, fun! [To quote the Beach Boys].
I'm just off to Berlin for a week - hopefully I should find a little inspiration in the capital city of the land of "Vorsprung durch Technik..." That's 'truth in engineering' apparently.
Meanwhile a few shots to keep the juices flowing:
I note your kind words of warning... rest assured that both this Tiger and I are (almost) ready for the final denouement.
There are a few more things to attend to - the turret stowage box for one. And of course even once the dunkelgelb starts to go on I have all the fun of painting tools, wrestling with towing cables and such like. But it will be a summer of fun, fun, fun! [To quote the Beach Boys].
I'm just off to Berlin for a week - hopefully I should find a little inspiration in the capital city of the land of "Vorsprung durch Technik..." That's 'truth in engineering' apparently.
Meanwhile a few shots to keep the juices flowing:
My Mid-Production Normandy Tiger 1 build thread: http://www.rctankwarfare.co.uk/forums/v ... =22&t=8350
- tanks_for_the_memory
- Sergeant
- Posts: 501
- Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2011 4:50 pm
- Location: London
Re: Building a Mid-Production Normandy Tiger 1
Replacing the muzzle brake
Once you replace the Heng Long bb firing barrel with the metal recoil equivalent then you have to find a new muzzle brake. This is no bad thing because, whilst the plastic original looks fine at first, once compared to the better alternatives you can see that it is actually rather too 'fat'. I suppose it has to be to accommodate the bb firing function.
The Taigen barrels now come with their own plastic muzzle brakes already fitted. To be honest, if mine had come with one of these I would probably have settled for it, but when I bought mine it was just the barrel. So I looked elsewhere. Aber, as usual, come to the rescue - but their muzzle brake is typically complicated, being made of separate parts. So I found a much simpler option. This came from Tankzone and it's still available at reasonable price:
http://www.tankzone.co.uk/images/tam/ti/ti_gun02.jpg
it's a one piece brass turning and, to my eye, looks very close in proportion to both the Aber version and the real thing.
One more note. This is the early, larger muzzle brake which is suitable for the early and mid production Tigers. Once you get the steel wheels and monocular gun sight then the muzzle brake used was the smaller one which was, I believe, identical to that on the Tiger 1. Metal upgrades for these are also available, but from what I can see you may have trouble grafting them onto the Taigen metal barrel.
Once you replace the Heng Long bb firing barrel with the metal recoil equivalent then you have to find a new muzzle brake. This is no bad thing because, whilst the plastic original looks fine at first, once compared to the better alternatives you can see that it is actually rather too 'fat'. I suppose it has to be to accommodate the bb firing function.
The Taigen barrels now come with their own plastic muzzle brakes already fitted. To be honest, if mine had come with one of these I would probably have settled for it, but when I bought mine it was just the barrel. So I looked elsewhere. Aber, as usual, come to the rescue - but their muzzle brake is typically complicated, being made of separate parts. So I found a much simpler option. This came from Tankzone and it's still available at reasonable price:
http://www.tankzone.co.uk/images/tam/ti/ti_gun02.jpg
it's a one piece brass turning and, to my eye, looks very close in proportion to both the Aber version and the real thing.
One more note. This is the early, larger muzzle brake which is suitable for the early and mid production Tigers. Once you get the steel wheels and monocular gun sight then the muzzle brake used was the smaller one which was, I believe, identical to that on the Tiger 1. Metal upgrades for these are also available, but from what I can see you may have trouble grafting them onto the Taigen metal barrel.
Last edited by tanks_for_the_memory on Wed Jun 08, 2016 11:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
My Mid-Production Normandy Tiger 1 build thread: http://www.rctankwarfare.co.uk/forums/v ... =22&t=8350
Re: Building a Mid-Production Normandy Tiger 1
Hi tanks as you know I am new to RC Tanks and the forum but this thread is very interesting and inspirational as I am starting to put things right on my new Tiger 1 tank which arrived yesterday. I have gained loads of knowledge and ideas about my Tiger through your thread. So keep up the great work on this Tiger build.
Kevin
- tanks_for_the_memory
- Sergeant
- Posts: 501
- Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2011 4:50 pm
- Location: London
Re: Building a Mid-Production Normandy Tiger 1
Thanks Kevin. It can be rewarding but also frustrating at times (not to mention the expense..)
Just keep at it, post the good and the bad - and be quicker than me!
Good luck!
Tanks / Tim
Just keep at it, post the good and the bad - and be quicker than me!
Good luck!
Tanks / Tim
My Mid-Production Normandy Tiger 1 build thread: http://www.rctankwarfare.co.uk/forums/v ... =22&t=8350
- tanks_for_the_memory
- Sergeant
- Posts: 501
- Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2011 4:50 pm
- Location: London
Re: Building a Mid-Production Normandy Tiger 1
Finishing the turret stowage bin
The rear turret stowage bin was a distinctive part of the Tiger's look. Without it the turret always looks a little unbalanced with the massive gun at the front - although in reality, since it was made of thin sheet metal - it obviously added no real weight at all.
I had started this a long while ago, using the Hachette Build Your Own Tiger magazine parts in place of the Heng Long bin, which I was able to remove once I had switched to the Taigen recoil unit (because this also takes care of the elevation, the plastic motor and cog installed at the rear of the HL turret are no longer needed).
The other alternative would have been to use the Tamiya bin. However, the attraction of the Hachette version was the opening bin lids and the associated photoetch which came with them.
The first step was to thin down parts of the inside to enable me to make realistic shrapnel / bullet holes - these were simply done by stabbing the outside with a sharp blade and twisting it. I also added a corner dent with a rounded needle file. As you can see from my photos of the venerable Bovington Tiger 1 (taken at the recent Tankfest) these sheet metal bins were particularly prone to such damage.
Although dimensionally pretty accurate, the Hachette bin also lacks the distinctive rearward slope of the real thing, so I sanded the sides and rear down a little to make the top sit at the correct angle. So far so good. Then I realised that the top of the bin was far too thick so I had to sand this down to a whisker of its actual thickness. On the Hachette version the tops of the lids sat at the same level as the bin roof - but they should actually sit above it.
Then came the opening lids. This was, I thought, the main advantage of using the Hachette parts, but then I realised that the lids, which were moulded as thick solid pieces of plastic, should actually be thin with even thinner sides. See this pic of a Tiger knocked out in Italy...
I almost admitted defeat but since I had come this far i took the trouble to sand one of them down and used plastic card to make the sides. At this point I thought that using the Tamiya bin (although you would have to cut away the moulded lids) and the Aber metal lids might have been a better idea - but since (I believe) these only come with the full Aber photoetch set this would have been an expensive option. Besides, what I had started I felt i had to finish! The lids also fit over an internal lip around the bin aperture and this I made from more thin plastic card. By this stage I had resolved to only keep one of the bins workable in order to save my sanity (or what's left of it). You will see that I had marked the lids with 'port' and' 'star' to avoid muddling them up - they are different but look almost the same.
The hinges that came with the Hachette set were then added without any further trouble. Most importantly, on the opening bin lid they worked just like the real thing. Note that, aside from Aber, there is no other source for these hinges because the Voyager set (of which see more in a moment) does not include them.
Sadly this was not the end because next you have to add the distinctive lid clamps. Oh god... Thankfully this is where Voyager come to the rescue yet again. These clamps are not unlike those used to fasten the front mounted jack block which means they can be made to work just like the real thing by clamping down the lid. However, once again I decided that making these workable was unfeasible and unrealistic on a working tank - so I cheated and glued them into place. This is another reason I decided to stop with only one opening lid - you can't properly close it without fastening the clamps and, if they're not workable, then this cannot be done. It seems feasible that the crew might forget to fasten one lid before driving off into battle - but not both...
The final step was to add the brackets which hold the bin to the turret. These come with the Voyager set and were supplemented with Masterclub hexagonal bolts. There are two underneath as well but I had simply made these with bent brass strip many moons ago and, since they can hardly be seen, I left them as they were. Finally, as I have already noted above, it is important to remember that the zimmerit was already applied to the turret rear before the stowage box was attached. These boxes could (and frequently were) lost in combat and it wouldn't have made much sense to leave a gaping hole in the anti-magnetic paste on the back of the turret. In fact I only applied the Magicsculp where it could be seen around the edges but I took the precaution of pressing the stowage box into the putty whilst it was still wet to make sure it sat right... All I have to do now is add a coat of primer.
Oh yes, I almost forgot the extra rivets. I will deal with these in the next post. Let's just say for now that it involved an old trick with PVA glue and a cocktail stick which I had last used over 30 years ago...
The rear turret stowage bin was a distinctive part of the Tiger's look. Without it the turret always looks a little unbalanced with the massive gun at the front - although in reality, since it was made of thin sheet metal - it obviously added no real weight at all.
I had started this a long while ago, using the Hachette Build Your Own Tiger magazine parts in place of the Heng Long bin, which I was able to remove once I had switched to the Taigen recoil unit (because this also takes care of the elevation, the plastic motor and cog installed at the rear of the HL turret are no longer needed).
The other alternative would have been to use the Tamiya bin. However, the attraction of the Hachette version was the opening bin lids and the associated photoetch which came with them.
The first step was to thin down parts of the inside to enable me to make realistic shrapnel / bullet holes - these were simply done by stabbing the outside with a sharp blade and twisting it. I also added a corner dent with a rounded needle file. As you can see from my photos of the venerable Bovington Tiger 1 (taken at the recent Tankfest) these sheet metal bins were particularly prone to such damage.
Although dimensionally pretty accurate, the Hachette bin also lacks the distinctive rearward slope of the real thing, so I sanded the sides and rear down a little to make the top sit at the correct angle. So far so good. Then I realised that the top of the bin was far too thick so I had to sand this down to a whisker of its actual thickness. On the Hachette version the tops of the lids sat at the same level as the bin roof - but they should actually sit above it.
Then came the opening lids. This was, I thought, the main advantage of using the Hachette parts, but then I realised that the lids, which were moulded as thick solid pieces of plastic, should actually be thin with even thinner sides. See this pic of a Tiger knocked out in Italy...
I almost admitted defeat but since I had come this far i took the trouble to sand one of them down and used plastic card to make the sides. At this point I thought that using the Tamiya bin (although you would have to cut away the moulded lids) and the Aber metal lids might have been a better idea - but since (I believe) these only come with the full Aber photoetch set this would have been an expensive option. Besides, what I had started I felt i had to finish! The lids also fit over an internal lip around the bin aperture and this I made from more thin plastic card. By this stage I had resolved to only keep one of the bins workable in order to save my sanity (or what's left of it). You will see that I had marked the lids with 'port' and' 'star' to avoid muddling them up - they are different but look almost the same.
The hinges that came with the Hachette set were then added without any further trouble. Most importantly, on the opening bin lid they worked just like the real thing. Note that, aside from Aber, there is no other source for these hinges because the Voyager set (of which see more in a moment) does not include them.
Sadly this was not the end because next you have to add the distinctive lid clamps. Oh god... Thankfully this is where Voyager come to the rescue yet again. These clamps are not unlike those used to fasten the front mounted jack block which means they can be made to work just like the real thing by clamping down the lid. However, once again I decided that making these workable was unfeasible and unrealistic on a working tank - so I cheated and glued them into place. This is another reason I decided to stop with only one opening lid - you can't properly close it without fastening the clamps and, if they're not workable, then this cannot be done. It seems feasible that the crew might forget to fasten one lid before driving off into battle - but not both...
The final step was to add the brackets which hold the bin to the turret. These come with the Voyager set and were supplemented with Masterclub hexagonal bolts. There are two underneath as well but I had simply made these with bent brass strip many moons ago and, since they can hardly be seen, I left them as they were. Finally, as I have already noted above, it is important to remember that the zimmerit was already applied to the turret rear before the stowage box was attached. These boxes could (and frequently were) lost in combat and it wouldn't have made much sense to leave a gaping hole in the anti-magnetic paste on the back of the turret. In fact I only applied the Magicsculp where it could be seen around the edges but I took the precaution of pressing the stowage box into the putty whilst it was still wet to make sure it sat right... All I have to do now is add a coat of primer.
Oh yes, I almost forgot the extra rivets. I will deal with these in the next post. Let's just say for now that it involved an old trick with PVA glue and a cocktail stick which I had last used over 30 years ago...
Last edited by tanks_for_the_memory on Wed Jul 06, 2016 10:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
My Mid-Production Normandy Tiger 1 build thread: http://www.rctankwarfare.co.uk/forums/v ... =22&t=8350
- Estnische
- Warrant Officer 2nd Class
- Posts: 1065
- Joined: Tue Jun 07, 2016 11:52 pm
- Location: Wollongong, Australia
Re: Building a Mid-Production Normandy Tiger 1
Thanks for your earlier post about the air intakes after Feifel removal. I was intending to use the Late intake cover, as an 'update', but combining this with pics from Tiger 1 In Action book, it's more legit to use the old type.
- tanks_for_the_memory
- Sergeant
- Posts: 501
- Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2011 4:50 pm
- Location: London
Re: Building a Mid-Production Normandy Tiger 1
You're welcome Estnische!
It has been quite a learning curve with this build, but one thing I have slowly come to realise is the fact that the evolution of Tiger 1s was a gradual and often overlapping process. Sometimes factories used up new stocks of parts before the old, meaning that the oldest were then fitted to later models of tanks. At other times factory and field repairs meant that parts of vehicles of a different vintage were reassembled in odd combinations - especially later in the war.
As a result you don't always need 'update' everything you think.
Only this week I came across a photo of a Tiger 1 in Czechoslovakia at the end of the war which had many of the early and mid-production features combined - early tracks, rubber tyres, hull smoke dischargers, side mounted headlights, drum cupola - but also a coat of zimmerit. This would certainly make for a far easier re-build of a stock Heng Long Tiger...
It has been quite a learning curve with this build, but one thing I have slowly come to realise is the fact that the evolution of Tiger 1s was a gradual and often overlapping process. Sometimes factories used up new stocks of parts before the old, meaning that the oldest were then fitted to later models of tanks. At other times factory and field repairs meant that parts of vehicles of a different vintage were reassembled in odd combinations - especially later in the war.
As a result you don't always need 'update' everything you think.
Only this week I came across a photo of a Tiger 1 in Czechoslovakia at the end of the war which had many of the early and mid-production features combined - early tracks, rubber tyres, hull smoke dischargers, side mounted headlights, drum cupola - but also a coat of zimmerit. This would certainly make for a far easier re-build of a stock Heng Long Tiger...
My Mid-Production Normandy Tiger 1 build thread: http://www.rctankwarfare.co.uk/forums/v ... =22&t=8350