Intro to the Open Panzer Project - and a new Control Board
Intro to the Open Panzer Project - and a new Control Board
I'd like to introduce two things to everyone: a project and a product.
First, the Open Panzer Project. This is an undertaking to create open source versions of all electronics used in RC tanks today, with quality and features second to none. Open source means all software, designs and even processes are freely available for examination, modification, and distribution. For the last many years this project has been comprised of one person, but from now on it belongs to and will be shaped by anyone able and willing to contribute. The advantages of an open source approach are numerous, but for one it allows the community to continuously build upon the efforts of those who came before rather than re-invent the wheel, and for another, it is not dependent on the success or failure of any single person or business but can persist and evolve even as people and enterprises come and go.
OpenPanzer.org is the online home for the Open Panzer project. The site includes a forum to discuss Open Panzer designs or any other open source RC undertaking. It's kind of a quiet place right now but in time we hope it will grow to a hive of activity.
The site also includes all the details of our designs and a comprehensive Wiki with instructions. This brings us to the second introduction: our Tank Control Board or TCB for short.
The TCB can do all the things tankers are used to, but with flexibility, ease and features unparalleled in the market today. The intent was to create a board that would let the user tank the way they wanted, while getting rid of annoying restrictions like TV remotes for programming, tiny jumpers to lose, or memorizing odd stick combos to perform actions. In a manner very similar to flight controllers used on modern quadcopters, The TCB is compatible with all hobby radio receivers that output PPM, SBus, or iBus signals and can read up to 16 radio channels with only a single cable to your receiver. Each channel can be assigned to scores of functions in any way you choose. All configuration is done with easy to use Windows software we call "OP Config." Connection to a computer is with a standard USB cable or wirelessly with an optional Bluetooth adapter. We encourage you to download OP Config now and see what you think.
The TCB is plug-and-play compatible with Tamiya turret motors, recoil units and IR equipment. Taigen recoil, Airsoft and flash units can be made to work with very minor re-wiring, and we have video instructions for each of them. Taigen smokers are plug and play. Additionally the TCB can control up to 5 servos and 5 lights.
There are two important things to note about the TCB - it can not drive track motors directly (at least in 1/16th scale or larger), and it has no on-board sound.
For track motors the TCB is compatible with all hobby speed controls (brushed or brushless), and a variety of serial motor controllers including all Dimension Engineering Sabertooth controllers as well as our own design Scout ESC. Every other segment of the RC hobby uses and always has used separate motor controllers, even Tamiya uses a distinct speed control box for their tanks. Although this necessitates another piece of equipment, it allows you to choose the controller that best meets your needs, and keeps the TCB smaller and less expensive. This also means the TCB can drive a 1/6th scale tank just as easily as 1/16.
As for sound - the TCB is plug and play compatible with the Benedini TBS Mini and Micro sound cards, and in fact you get even more control than you normally would without having to modify your transmitter. Compatibility can be added in the future for other sound devices, including an open source sound card of our own design (not yet complete at this time).
In terms of battle the TCB has been programmed to accept and fire all known IR protocols on the market today including all repair and MG protocols. Dipswitches on the board allow the user to select any of the three Tamiya weight classes or a custom class of your own definition.
Additionally, a great deal of effort and thought went into the most fundamental aspect of RC tanks - driving your model. Acceleration and deceleration constraints (often called "physics" by other manufacturers) are not only implemented but can be adjusted by the user in multitudes of ways, including on the fly. Multiple turn modes, selectable neutral turns, speed limits and much more are all features you can experiment with as well as manipulate from your transmitter, that will transform your tank from a toy to something that operates in a realistic manner.
I could go on, but if you want to learn more, please head over to the TCB Wiki, get a big cup of coffee, and spend an evening reading to your heart's content.
EDIT FEBRUARY 2019: Hobby King has discontinued sales of the TCB. There is now no longer any place to purchase Open Panzer products. Existing customers will continue to be supported, and if the situation changes in the future, this thread will be updated.
Luke
.
First, the Open Panzer Project. This is an undertaking to create open source versions of all electronics used in RC tanks today, with quality and features second to none. Open source means all software, designs and even processes are freely available for examination, modification, and distribution. For the last many years this project has been comprised of one person, but from now on it belongs to and will be shaped by anyone able and willing to contribute. The advantages of an open source approach are numerous, but for one it allows the community to continuously build upon the efforts of those who came before rather than re-invent the wheel, and for another, it is not dependent on the success or failure of any single person or business but can persist and evolve even as people and enterprises come and go.
OpenPanzer.org is the online home for the Open Panzer project. The site includes a forum to discuss Open Panzer designs or any other open source RC undertaking. It's kind of a quiet place right now but in time we hope it will grow to a hive of activity.
The site also includes all the details of our designs and a comprehensive Wiki with instructions. This brings us to the second introduction: our Tank Control Board or TCB for short.
The TCB can do all the things tankers are used to, but with flexibility, ease and features unparalleled in the market today. The intent was to create a board that would let the user tank the way they wanted, while getting rid of annoying restrictions like TV remotes for programming, tiny jumpers to lose, or memorizing odd stick combos to perform actions. In a manner very similar to flight controllers used on modern quadcopters, The TCB is compatible with all hobby radio receivers that output PPM, SBus, or iBus signals and can read up to 16 radio channels with only a single cable to your receiver. Each channel can be assigned to scores of functions in any way you choose. All configuration is done with easy to use Windows software we call "OP Config." Connection to a computer is with a standard USB cable or wirelessly with an optional Bluetooth adapter. We encourage you to download OP Config now and see what you think.
The TCB is plug-and-play compatible with Tamiya turret motors, recoil units and IR equipment. Taigen recoil, Airsoft and flash units can be made to work with very minor re-wiring, and we have video instructions for each of them. Taigen smokers are plug and play. Additionally the TCB can control up to 5 servos and 5 lights.
There are two important things to note about the TCB - it can not drive track motors directly (at least in 1/16th scale or larger), and it has no on-board sound.
For track motors the TCB is compatible with all hobby speed controls (brushed or brushless), and a variety of serial motor controllers including all Dimension Engineering Sabertooth controllers as well as our own design Scout ESC. Every other segment of the RC hobby uses and always has used separate motor controllers, even Tamiya uses a distinct speed control box for their tanks. Although this necessitates another piece of equipment, it allows you to choose the controller that best meets your needs, and keeps the TCB smaller and less expensive. This also means the TCB can drive a 1/6th scale tank just as easily as 1/16.
As for sound - the TCB is plug and play compatible with the Benedini TBS Mini and Micro sound cards, and in fact you get even more control than you normally would without having to modify your transmitter. Compatibility can be added in the future for other sound devices, including an open source sound card of our own design (not yet complete at this time).
In terms of battle the TCB has been programmed to accept and fire all known IR protocols on the market today including all repair and MG protocols. Dipswitches on the board allow the user to select any of the three Tamiya weight classes or a custom class of your own definition.
Additionally, a great deal of effort and thought went into the most fundamental aspect of RC tanks - driving your model. Acceleration and deceleration constraints (often called "physics" by other manufacturers) are not only implemented but can be adjusted by the user in multitudes of ways, including on the fly. Multiple turn modes, selectable neutral turns, speed limits and much more are all features you can experiment with as well as manipulate from your transmitter, that will transform your tank from a toy to something that operates in a realistic manner.
I could go on, but if you want to learn more, please head over to the TCB Wiki, get a big cup of coffee, and spend an evening reading to your heart's content.
EDIT FEBRUARY 2019: Hobby King has discontinued sales of the TCB. There is now no longer any place to purchase Open Panzer products. Existing customers will continue to be supported, and if the situation changes in the future, this thread will be updated.
Luke
.
Last edited by LukeZ on Tue Feb 05, 2019 7:05 pm, edited 11 times in total.
NO SUPPORT THROUGH PM - read why
- wibblywobbly
- Major
- Posts: 6396
- Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2008 9:30 am
- Location: South Wales Valley
- Contact:
Re: Intro to the Open Panzer Project - and a new Control Boa
Ok, well I am the inquisitive sort, so I have just spent a while reading through the site, the Github, the parts list etc. As a 3D printer owner, I understand the 2560 stuff, the IDE etc. My only concern would be that IDE 1.8 has changed what it will accept in terms of code. The syntax of various commands has changed and has caused a few headaches in the printer community as it throws up errors when it tries to compile. Using 1.6 or earlier will handle the old code.
Just mentioning it in case anyone writes using the earlier syntax but someone using the later IDE finds a bunch of compile errors. It will save a lot of newbies a lot of hassle if the code is written to comply with what 1.8 expects, as then everyone is singing from the same hymn sheet.
It's an interesting project, certainly unique, though I am guessing that most would rather buy a ready built board than solder one up themselves. How many people actually build their own Arduino boards when the Chinese sell them for $10 a time? Looking at that parts list it would take a superhuman effort to source them all.
This is where the price factor comes into play. How much are we talking for a pre built board. I am assuming that someone can buy the board, then download the firmware and flash the card, the same way that an Arduino works, If the TCB is priced in a similar way to the Arduino then it's a fantastic idea, but once you get to the £70 mark you are up against the Clark boards?
If a user has to buy a sound card and esc's the cost ramps up (excuse the pun), you are in a 'very' competitive market. The TCB is angling towards what an Elmod board does, but that has been developed over many years, and is top drawer in terms of programmability, sound quality etc. That's all on one board.
Don't get me wrong, I love the reprap community, I built my printer and have just ordered another kit, and if the TCB delivers similar savings over off the shelf tank boards it will get a lot of attention. It's a shame that the 2560 couldn't be utilised with a Ramps 1.4 for hook ups, it would have standardised everything and been available to all. Mind you, if my experience is anything to go by, magic smoke would have become a common occurrence as well.
Just mentioning it in case anyone writes using the earlier syntax but someone using the later IDE finds a bunch of compile errors. It will save a lot of newbies a lot of hassle if the code is written to comply with what 1.8 expects, as then everyone is singing from the same hymn sheet.
It's an interesting project, certainly unique, though I am guessing that most would rather buy a ready built board than solder one up themselves. How many people actually build their own Arduino boards when the Chinese sell them for $10 a time? Looking at that parts list it would take a superhuman effort to source them all.
This is where the price factor comes into play. How much are we talking for a pre built board. I am assuming that someone can buy the board, then download the firmware and flash the card, the same way that an Arduino works, If the TCB is priced in a similar way to the Arduino then it's a fantastic idea, but once you get to the £70 mark you are up against the Clark boards?
If a user has to buy a sound card and esc's the cost ramps up (excuse the pun), you are in a 'very' competitive market. The TCB is angling towards what an Elmod board does, but that has been developed over many years, and is top drawer in terms of programmability, sound quality etc. That's all on one board.
Don't get me wrong, I love the reprap community, I built my printer and have just ordered another kit, and if the TCB delivers similar savings over off the shelf tank boards it will get a lot of attention. It's a shame that the 2560 couldn't be utilised with a Ramps 1.4 for hook ups, it would have standardised everything and been available to all. Mind you, if my experience is anything to go by, magic smoke would have become a common occurrence as well.
Tiger 1 Late
Panther G
King Tiger
M36 B1
Panther G
King Tiger
M36 B1
Re: Intro to the Open Panzer Project - and a new Control Boa
Hi wibbly, thanks for those comments. A few things:
We are taking the road less traveled (and in the RC tank hobby, untraveled before now).
- Absolutely it is not expected that people will need to assemble these boards themselves, that is impractical even for those who would have the expertise and equipment to do so. But it is important the designs, bill of materials, etc. all be available for those that want to modify the existing version, create future variants, etc...
- Hobby King has not yet made a final decision on price for the board, I will post here when we know. I agree with you price will be a crucial factor given the extra pieces of equipment that must also be factored in.
- All Open Panzer code compiles with the latest version of the Arduino IDE (version 1.8.1 as of today).
- Also - no one needs to know anything about code, let alone needs to compile any, to use this project. Boards come flashed with firmware from the factory and can be updated with the click of a button from the Windows interface. Once again - we are offering great freedom to those who wish to modify or improve the firmware, but for the average user such things do not need to be even thought about. Install the board in your tank the same as you would a Clark or any other, and go tanking. That's it.
We are taking the road less traveled (and in the RC tank hobby, untraveled before now).
NO SUPPORT THROUGH PM - read why
- Raminator
- Warrant Officer 2nd Class
- Posts: 1295
- Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2015 9:57 am
- Location: Newcastle, Australia
Re: Intro to the Open Panzer Project - and a new Control Boa
Extremely interesting stuff, Luke. I actually happened across your project the other day while looking for something else, and it really took my fancy; an open-source approach offers an unparalleled level of customisation. As much as I like the IBU, there are things that I wish I could tweak or change but just can't. I'm really pleased you've been able to find a partner to help move forward, and I'll be keeping a close eye out on future development.
With regards to the extra expense of sound boards and ESCs, there are already plenty of cheap clones coming on the market. I'm sure it'd be easy enough for Hobby King to package them with the TCB if they so choose.
With regards to the extra expense of sound boards and ESCs, there are already plenty of cheap clones coming on the market. I'm sure it'd be easy enough for Hobby King to package them with the TCB if they so choose.
- wibblywobbly
- Major
- Posts: 6396
- Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2008 9:30 am
- Location: South Wales Valley
- Contact:
Re: Intro to the Open Panzer Project - and a new Control Boa
Thanks for the info Luke, much appreciated. I wonder if the Chinese will latch on to this and manufacture the boards, they seem to be able to do this sort of thing overnight?
The exchange rate for $/$ isn't brilliant at the moment, and may play a factor in what the UK will pay. Let's hope that Hobby King can use their industrial muscle to get this to the market at a competitive price.
I've seen quite a few projects on the web where people have used Arduino boards to create some excellent and original tank control boards, and always wondered whether anyone would take it to the next level. Well done for getting this project off the ground, it could open doors that don't currently exist for many, I would be interested simply because I like tinkering.
The exchange rate for $/$ isn't brilliant at the moment, and may play a factor in what the UK will pay. Let's hope that Hobby King can use their industrial muscle to get this to the market at a competitive price.
I've seen quite a few projects on the web where people have used Arduino boards to create some excellent and original tank control boards, and always wondered whether anyone would take it to the next level. Well done for getting this project off the ground, it could open doors that don't currently exist for many, I would be interested simply because I like tinkering.
Tiger 1 Late
Panther G
King Tiger
M36 B1
Panther G
King Tiger
M36 B1
Re: Intro to the Open Panzer Project - and a new Control Boa
Good luck. I really hope this project takes off as I can see potential for some great things to come from a strong open source community.
Re: Intro to the Open Panzer Project - and a new Control Boa
Thanks for the kind comments guys!
NO SUPPORT THROUGH PM - read why
- wibblywobbly
- Major
- Posts: 6396
- Joined: Fri Oct 17, 2008 9:30 am
- Location: South Wales Valley
- Contact:
Re: Intro to the Open Panzer Project - and a new Control Boa
Luke, I have downloaded the firmware and took a look through it to see what this system will do. I think you have done a stunning job, the functions that you have described only scratch the surface of the potential of this set up, and how a tank will run. It is up there in the rankings just below the Elmod I reckon.
If a cheap alternative to the Benedini can be found, it will open doors. Never got my head around what a Benedini costs...
If a cheap alternative to the Benedini can be found, it will open doors. Never got my head around what a Benedini costs...
Tiger 1 Late
Panther G
King Tiger
M36 B1
Panther G
King Tiger
M36 B1
Re: Intro to the Open Panzer Project - and a new Control Boa
Thank you wibbly for taking the time to examine the project further. There is really no way I can describe all the features in a few posts, people have to explore it themselves. It takes time to grasp the potential of the approach we take, specifically the ability to map functions to actions. We've spent a lot of time on the documentation and the website, but someone still has to read it! It's gratifying when someone does, so again I thank you.
I agree with you about the sound. It is the big limitation in the hobby generally and for our project specifically. While Benedini is arguably the best system available today; I agree the cost is far too much. Indeed I have never heard a criticism of his product other than the expense of it. That is a testament to its quality, but at some point price does matter.
Because of that I believe it is only a matter of time before alternatives become available, open source and otherwise. It will be a while yet but in the end it is inevitable. Partly we will have Benedini to thank - if his board were not so expensive there would be no incentive to for anyone to develop an alternative!
I agree with you about the sound. It is the big limitation in the hobby generally and for our project specifically. While Benedini is arguably the best system available today; I agree the cost is far too much. Indeed I have never heard a criticism of his product other than the expense of it. That is a testament to its quality, but at some point price does matter.
Because of that I believe it is only a matter of time before alternatives become available, open source and otherwise. It will be a while yet but in the end it is inevitable. Partly we will have Benedini to thank - if his board were not so expensive there would be no incentive to for anyone to develop an alternative!
NO SUPPORT THROUGH PM - read why
- Rad_Schuhart
- Warrant Officer 1st Class
- Posts: 2061
- Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2016 9:22 am
- Location: Spanish living in Graz, Austria. Heart in UK.
- Contact:
Re: Intro to the Open Panzer Project - and a new Control Boa
Benedini, according to the web:LukeZ wrote: Benedini is arguably the best system available today; I agree the cost is far too much. Indeed I have never heard a criticism of his product other than the expense of it. That is a testament to its quality, but at some point price does matter.
Soundquality 22KHz
16Mbit Soundmemory, enough for 93s of soundrecordings
Internal 1,2W amplifier at 8 Ohm speakers
Hundred euros, and you need to buy the programming cable, so 120 euros. If you add the amplifiers add another 60 euros. So we are sinking about 180 euros plus shipping for having 93 seconds of not a very good sound quality.
Asp 2 board:
CD quality 44.1k stereo or mono .wav files
20 watt onboard amplifier plus 2 x 3 watt
Unlimited sound memory (Well, limited only by your double sd cards)
The board plays literally hundreds of sounds for virtually unlimited time.
Price. 160 euros. Keep in mind that the ASP2 is a control board that has everything that you need.
So thats why I said in rc tanks universe forum that I dont see a success in this new board if we need to invest such a huge amount of dough in something clearly outdated and way way overpriced (im talking about the benedini here) specially when we already have another options. So again I encourage you in adding sound to your new board with such as promising software.
My RC tanks website, loads of free info for everybody:
https://radindustries.wordpress.com/
https://radindustries.wordpress.com/