TAMIYA M1A2 Displaymodel

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Postby 43rdRecceReg » Sat Oct 26, 2019 12:00 pm

I just read the whole thread though, with great interest. :thumbup: I'm very impressed with what you've achieved so far, and applaud you improvisational eye :clap:
At the same time, I really like the idea of picking the best bits, from a variety of platforms, to make the ideal (hybrid) model.
I'm a fan of the Tamiya chassis (especially the alloy base that's usually there in kits), as well as the overall look of their shells... but find the electronics uninspiring these days, if dependable. Worse still, the individual DMD units are prohibitively expensive if bought outside of the equally pricey Full-option kit. An Elmod unit costs less than the average DMD these days...(In Britain, anyway), and has- by all accounts- far more to offer than mere dependability.
I have the static version of the Jagdpanther, and aim to make it a runner. But, much as I like Tamiya gearboxes, they're also in the way too expensive bracket; so I'll take a broader view of running gear and other internals after reading this. That said, I'm awestruck with the look of ETO transmissions for Tamiya vehicles- including the Jadgpanther; but they're very expensive, and after postal and customs charges, I'll be washing dishes somewhere to make up the cost. :lolno:
Following along... :thumbup:
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Postby jarndice » Sat Oct 26, 2019 12:08 pm

The problem with "ETO" Gearboxes is as I understand it they are made in the Ukraine and exported to the USA and sold from there !!!
If they were sold from the place of manufacture they would be much more affordable to us Europeans.
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Postby 43rdRecceReg » Sat Oct 26, 2019 6:17 pm

jarndice wrote:The problem with "ETO" Gearboxes is as I understand it they are made in the Ukraine and exported to the USA and sold from there !!!
If they were sold from the place of manufacture they would be much more affordable to us Europeans.


Maybe someone could have a word in the ear of the President there, to make it happen, Shaun :shh: :D
Does this also mean that Ukrainians have no access to their own product, then? That's terrible :thumbdown:
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Postby kintaroukinji » Sun Oct 27, 2019 8:38 am

Thank you for your comment. This is the first time that I have hybridized the TAMIYA 1/16 model. TAMIYA's full operation kit is high quality and attractive, but expensive. Moreover, it is difficult to change its operation function. There is much room for remodeling and ditelling the appearance. In Japan, DMD can be purchased as an after-part from TAMIYA at a lower cost than ELMOD. The completeness as one product is excellent for TAMIYA full operation, but a third-party sound controller is good for me because I can enjoy my favorite functions and sounds.

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Postby 43rdRecceReg » Sun Oct 27, 2019 9:21 am

kintaroukinji wrote:Thank you for your comment. This is the first time that I have hybridized the TAMIYA 1/16 model. TAMIYA's full operation kit is high quality and attractive, but expensive. Moreover, it is difficult to change its operation function. There is much room for remodeling and ditelling the appearance. In Japan, DMD can be purchased as an after-part from TAMIYA at a lower cost than ELMOD. The completeness as one product is excellent for TAMIYA full operation, but a third-party sound controller is good for me because I can enjoy my favorite functions and sounds.


Out of curiosity, how well are the Heng Long gearboxes performing with the Tamiya running gear? In general, I find there is a quality and precision feel to Tamiya transmission assemblies. Everything fits where it should, and kits always seem to have the correct screws, bolts, and other fixings. By contrast, the reaming, thread repair, and minor surgery sometimes needed with Asiatam, Taigen, and Heng Long running gear, is almost totally absent with Tamiya products. :thumbup:
However, many feel the track tensioners in some models should be replaced with Henntec alternatives.
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Postby jarndice » Sun Oct 27, 2019 9:47 am

Roy Your comments raise a question ?
When Heng Long first put on sale their much flawed BUT affordable 1/16 Tiger1 it soon produced a body of modellers who worked their backsides off fixing those perceived failings,
Being altruistic people they wanted to share this knowledge and et voila the "FORUM" was born,
My Question being, If Tamiya had produced their Tiger1 with all the precision and detail that we have come to admire and place ourselves in penury to acquire but for a similar price to Heng Longs less than perfect example would there have been any incentive to create the "Forum" ?
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Postby 43rdRecceReg » Sun Oct 27, 2019 10:32 am

jarndice wrote:Roy Your comments raise a question ?
When Heng Long first put on sale their much flawed BUT affordable 1/16 Tiger1 it soon produced a body of modellers who worked their backsides off fixing those perceived failings,
Being altruistic people they wanted to share this knowledge and et voila the "FORUM" was born,
My Question being, If Tamiya had produced their Tiger1 with all the precision and detail that we have come to admire and place ourselves in penury to acquire but for a similar price to Heng Longs less than perfect example would there have been any incentive to create the "Forum" ?


Having spent years getting nothing creative done, because of the (then) basket of bollocks that Microsoft operating systems were, and then-eventually- finding meaningful digital life after MS OS in Mac OS- I get your point, Shaun.
Yes, some people love to tinker; whether something is 'broke' or not. :D and so, even if HL's Tiger 1 had clanked onto the scene in perfect trim, some folk would have stripped it down to see what made it tick. After that, the more OCD among our members would have invented niggles, if necessary, requiring remedial treatment. That way, the urge to tweak would have been satisfied. :lolno:
In any event, there would have been enhancements for the general behoof (and the satisfaction of collecting 'likes'), and shootouts at club level. In short, the Forum would have come into existence anyway- and, I'm glad it did. :D :thumbup:
Lastly, what's perfect to one person, appears flawed to another (irrespective of the values used). Thus, a Taigen Tiger 1, painted professionally, might appear perfect to one person, but to a Shaun, the embossed
tools on the deck would be a constant source of irritation. :D
Don't overlook the fact the Forum also delves into historical conflicts (also creates them sometimes... :lolno: ), other RC vehicles, and even Rugby matches. In the latter instance, the more quibble-minded can discuss the new tech employed in games, to decide whether a try really was a try... :wave:
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Postby kintaroukinji » Sun Oct 27, 2019 4:01 pm

43rdRecceReg wrote:
kintaroukinji wrote:Thank you for your comment. This is the first time that I have hybridized the TAMIYA 1/16 model. TAMIYA's full operation kit is high quality and attractive, but expensive. Moreover, it is difficult to change its operation function. There is much room for remodeling and ditelling the appearance. In Japan, DMD can be purchased as an after-part from TAMIYA at a lower cost than ELMOD. The completeness as one product is excellent for TAMIYA full operation, but a third-party sound controller is good for me because I can enjoy my favorite functions and sounds.


Out of curiosity, how well are the Heng Long gearboxes performing with the Tamiya running gear? In general, I find there is a quality and precision feel to Tamiya transmission assemblies. Everything fits where it should, and kits always seem to have the correct screws, bolts, and other fixings. By contrast, the reaming, thread repair, and minor surgery sometimes needed with Asiatam, Taigen, and Heng Long running gear, is almost totally absent with Tamiya products. :thumbup:
However, many feel the track tensioners in some models should be replaced with Henntec alternatives.


As long as I run this Abrams on the floor or carpet in the room, so far the HengLong plastic gearbox is working smoothly. This tank can get over obstacles such as books without any problems.
However, if the tank runs harshly on an outdoor lawn or wasteland, the plastic gearbox may be vulnerable. The reason why I chose the spare HengLong plastic gearbox for this tank was to see if a gearbox compatible with the HengLong chassis could be built into the TAMIYA M1A2 Abrams chassis without any major modifications. In the future I also consider replacing it with a more powerful and durable metal gear unit.
The gear unit used in this TAMIYA model is a differential gear with separate motors for running and steering, which is expensive, very sophisticated and high performance. When using this gear, a controller with a function that can control the differential gear is required.
This TAMIYA M1A2 model kit(also display model) has a simple track tensioner function on the idler wheel. I think that this track tensioner function can be used as long as this chassis is used even if the gearbox is changed.

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Postby jim2955 » Tue Dec 17, 2019 5:58 pm

I have enjoyed your build a great deal. I am in the process of the same build at this time. I bought a cheap ($350) static Tamiya Model kit and I am converting it to full RC . I am using a slightly different set of gear boxes and a Clark TK22 board I already had. I just acquired the Tamiya turret rotation unit so i can go to the next step in by build process. I have one question , I have found that the output shafts for the gear boxes are too short to make the drive sprockets sit in the correct location did you have this problem at all ?
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Postby kintaroukinji » Wed Dec 18, 2019 4:13 am

Hello Jim.
I diverted the plastic gear box that was originally attached to the HengLong King Tiger, but there was no problem with the length of the output shaft. The gearbox plate (BA20) and C5 parts from the kit were also used for the shaft penetration. However, instead of using the final shaft of the kit, I mounted the MATO metal drive sprocket (compatible with HengLong) directly on the drive sprocket shaft of the gearbox.
If it's different, I'm sorry, but is your gear BOX a short type that fits for example a HengLong Sherman tank? There are short and long types of HengLong gearboxes.

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Postby jim2955 » Wed Dec 18, 2019 9:59 pm

Ahhh I see thanks maybe I would be better off with a long shaft gear box then. I don't plan on using the final drive shaft from the Tamiya kit either I just have that in because I first built the kit complete as is then I started the conversion process. I also have a set of Mato drive sprockets I plan to attach direct to the Mato gear boxes. They work very well with the Tamiya tracks. Did you support the dive shafts at all in the chassis of the tank ? Bushings or bearings ?

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Postby jarndice » Wed Dec 18, 2019 10:52 pm

Hi, Just about every type of gearbox made by Taigen or Heng Long are available in either long shaft or short shaft versions,
A visit to www.rctank.de or www.forgebeartanks.com will give you an idea of what fits and also the sizes of the output shafts as well as the bearings prices and sizes.
Once you have found out which is right for your Tank the next thing to discover is the diameter of the output shafts for only then can you order the correct size output shaft bearings which in my very very umble opinion are essential for smooth and stress free running of the transmission.
I do not know if the Tamiya sprockets will fit the Taigen or Heng Long gearbox output shafts or indeed if the Heng Long and Taigen Sprockets are interchangeable.
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Postby Jimster » Thu Dec 19, 2019 12:27 am

I wish there was a industry standard to allow for complete compatibility for shafts and sprockets. How awesome would that be?

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Postby jarndice » Thu Dec 19, 2019 1:00 am

Until recently the gearbox output shaft sizes were not listed by most makers which made ordering output shaft bearings a bit of a guessing game :lolno:
Thank goodness common sense has prevailed. :thumbup:
Now we have to hope that common sense will produce interchangeable sprockets.
Don't hold your breath.
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Postby kintaroukinji » Thu Dec 19, 2019 5:11 am

jim2955 wrote:Ahhh I see thanks maybe I would be better off with a long shaft gear box then. I don't plan on using the final drive shaft from the Tamiya kit either I just have that in because I first built the kit complete as is then I started the conversion process. I also have a set of Mato drive sprockets I plan to attach direct to the Mato gear boxes. They work very well with the Tamiya tracks. Did you support the dive shafts at all in the chassis of the tank ? Bushings or bearings ?


At present, I am not using Bushing or Bearing. I use this kit's gearbox plate (BA20) instead of the bushing to support the drive shaft. The drive shaft diameter of the gearbox and the hole diameter of this gearbox plate match exactly. If you want to make the support part even stronger, I think it would be good to use “axle supports with ball bearings 7.99mm” instead of C5 parts on the outside of the tank case. However, a new hole must be drilled in the case to install the axle supports.

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Postby kintaroukinji » Tue Dec 24, 2019 9:43 am

What I don't like is the panel on the left rear engine deck of this model, to the right of the rectangular engine grille. This part has a smooth surface and seems to be different from an actual tank. I feel that it is a complete omission as a model.
エンジングリル3.JPG


Since many AFV modelers have pointed out, I modified them. I just put the extra etching parts there.
エンジングリル13.JPG


Also, it is a small part, but I added a handle to three CIPs.
CIP2.JPG


I intend to re-add the track recoil function to this M1A2. On the HengLong RX18, the micro switch at the end of the barrel is turned on when the barrel is recoiled, causing a track recoil. However, because the switch is at the end, the hull recoils when the barrel reaches the end. HengLong's track recoil is so exaggerated that many people dislike it. When I put TORRO's RX18 on this Abrams, it seems that it is not so exaggerated track recoil, so I will try track recoil. A switch is placed in front of the barrel so that a track recoil also occurs when the barrel recoil begins. The rigidity setting of the switch metal leaf spring is subtle. If the deformation is not within the elastic range, it will plastically deform during repetition and track recoil will not occur. If the switch contact time is too short, recoil will not occur.
A plastic plate is attached to the back to insulate the switch from being turned on when the switch is kicked during barrel recoil back. The distance between the fixed point and the contact point of the leaf spring switch and the leaf spring stiffness were adjusted by trial and error, and it worked properly.
phpBB [video]


However, I still feel that mechanical contact makes operation unstable. I thought that if a relay switch could be used, it would work better. When I made ATRC (anti-track recoil circuit) before, there was an extra relay switch (5V DPDT relay). It doesn't need to be DPDT, and SPDT is actually good, but I tried using this one.
As a result, it works just like a video. In the video below, the mechanical contacts have been removed. The trigger of the relay switch uses one of the USM-HL2 outputs (pulse), so the contact time can be adjusted in 0.1 second units by software. Since there is less wiring and no mechanical contact is required here, the track recoil reliability and stability seem to be better.
phpBB [video]


The black box is the DPDT and the green one is the connection terminal, all of which are attached to the PCB. In this picture these are temporarily placed on the turret to check the operation.
DPDT1.JPG


The back of the PCB is a simple wiring between the connection terminal and DPDT and a diode (1N4148) for resistance and reverse current prevention.
DPDT3_01.JPG

With this method, all of these can be stored in the under hull with the RX 18 and sound board, so the wiring between the turret and the hull does not increase.

The remaining work to be done on this tank model is painting (including weathering). I also want to use a slip ring to allow the turret to rotate 360 degrees. However, adopting a slip ring has two problems.
First, the vertical space from the turret to the under hull is small. Second, when I place the battery in the turret, I need a slip ring with a cable that can withstand the power current. (However, its dimensions are necessarily larger)
Since this model (full operation) was originally designed to set the battery in the turret, it is generally better to place the battery in the turret even if it is modified.

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