1/35 Tamiya M10 TD with MTM gearbox now with Video

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modler
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1/35 Tamiya M10 TD with MTM gearbox now with Video

Post by modler »

Good morning from Lakewood Ohio :)

UPDATE M10 VIDEO #1 I am driving with one hand and doing the video with the other so video is a little shaky :)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cJq2jCwks8A
UPDATE M10 VIDEO #2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npLwA9QadWU
UPDATE M10 VIDEO #3 with body mounted.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjPrjs5aVrw

My previous attempts at using this gearbox gained me experience in using these unique gearboxes and now I have a Tank with a MTM gearbox running using a M10 Tank Destroyer chassis which is very similar to a Sherman M4A4 long chassis Tank. The MTM gearbox is usually used with plastic ITL tracks. Using ITL tracks with the MTM GB has been a problem for me but I am still working on a application with ITL but in the meantime, I have a M10 in process using the stock poly tracks. I came up with a gearbox assembly technique that enhances the strength of the gearbox output axle, gearbox enclosure and finally mounting of the gearbox that allows easy removal for maintenance\repair of the gearbox.

The following application improvements make this a very interesting alternative to other gearboxes in this scale.

1. improved output axle strength via continuous metal rod through the axle.
2. mounting enclosure is secured with a tie strap that allows for disassembly\repair\motor swap etc.
3. Screw side mount using 1 micro screw with dynamic axis "floating track tension" allows some give under load and is used for default track tension setting via mounting hole location :crazy:
4. MTM\Tamiya Drive sprocket compatibility. I am using stock Tamiya Drive sprockets with poly center bushing with the MTM white plastic axle tubes to form a removable Drive sprocket that is not modified and can be used with the MTM GB as well as a Tamiya GB. I will show more detail on this Drive sprocket aspect when building the next gearbox.
5. Tank chassis\sprockets only have minor modifications and are interchangeable so gearboxes can be swapped from Tamiya to MTM and vice versa !!!

So a lot of time and development going on here as I see a lot of potential here as far as scale models being upgraded to RRC using this gearbox system.

So far I have 1 side done and testing reveals that it is a go! 8)
Attachments
IMG_8751.jpg
IMG_8751.jpg (2.8 MiB) Viewed 1835 times
IMG_8750.jpg
IMG_8750.jpg (2.87 MiB) Viewed 1835 times
IMG_8749.jpg
IMG_8749.jpg (2.81 MiB) Viewed 1835 times
Pivot IN to MINIMUM track tension. These particular poly tracks are old and have shrunk as time as went by and are now a "bit short" so requires MINIMUM tension. I am going to upgrade to plastic ITL on this model but for now these will do.
Pivot IN to MINIMUM track tension. These particular poly tracks are old and have shrunk as time as went by and are now a "bit short" so requires MINIMUM tension. I am going to upgrade to plastic ITL on this model but for now these will do.
Pivot OUT to MAX track tension
Pivot OUT to MAX track tension
IMG_8755.JPG (93.07 KiB) Viewed 6394 times
Micro mounting screw shown just aft of the drive sprocket. Gearbox can pivot on this axis and can be used as track tensioner or as is for dynamic track tension dependent on load.
Micro mounting screw shown just aft of the drive sprocket. Gearbox can pivot on this axis and can be used as track tensioner or as is for dynamic track tension dependent on load.
Front view of tie strap
Front view of tie strap
Plastic gearbox is now secured with a tie strap instead of being glued together.
Plastic gearbox is now secured with a tie strap instead of being glued together.
Steel wire is now continuous through length of axle.
Steel wire is now continuous through length of axle.
IMG_8745.JPG (86.62 KiB) Viewed 6394 times
Modified axle assembly improves strength
Modified axle assembly improves strength
Last edited by modler on Mon Jan 30, 2023 6:30 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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modler
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Re: 1/35 Tamiya M10 TD with MTM gearbox

Post by modler »

Today was a good day as I got the other MTM built and installed and tested !!!

I took a lot of pictures during the gearbox build and will post that info here as I get time.

Video of MTM gearboxes in the M10
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npLwA9QadWU
Attachments
Runs very well with this configuration.
Runs very well with this configuration.
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Re: 1/35 Tamiya M10 TD with MTM gearbox now with Video

Post by modler »

MTM gearbox mounting details

During this build, I came up with a novel gearbox mounting method that makes this GB system relatively easy to install in small motorized 1/35 model TANK projects and easy to remove with no glue used in the GB assembly or mounting. The mounting screw location on the GB is critical as is the screw size as to prevent damage to the internals of the gearbox micro metal drive gears and metal housing. So it is a metal gearbox in a plastic housing.

I was able to mount each gearbox with 1 screw that allows a small pitch axis adjustment for fine tuning track tension and provides a dynamic variable tension. This allows a precise track tension for delicate ITL tracks and poly one piece tracks.

A wide variety of model Tanks (Tamiya\Academy as they both use the same drive sprocket interface with poly bushing that makes the sprockets removable and interchangeable with respect to GB interface mount) can be used with the MTM GB with the drive sprocket interface tube and nut which makes the drive sprocket REMOVABLE.

Interfacing any drive sprocket to any gearbox can be a challenge and is perhaps the most difficult aspect of a motorized model Tank conversion. This drive sprocket\GB interface directly affects alignment to the sprocket\track and is the key to successful conversion
Attachments
This is the heart of the gearbox and is a precise assembly. Assembly gets easier with practice. This is the missing link to the success of this gearbox IMO. The way I assemble the axle is different than the instructions at the MTM website and allows the use of poly tracks which I have built three models using poly tracks and they work very well with no failures of the gearbox.
This is the heart of the gearbox and is a precise assembly. Assembly gets easier with practice. This is the missing link to the success of this gearbox IMO. The way I assemble the axle is different than the instructions at the MTM website and allows the use of poly tracks which I have built three models using poly tracks and they work very well with no failures of the gearbox.
Small amount of metal axle rod extends beyond sprocket outward center used in sprocket removal. This is optional. If stock appearance is required, this can be cut off and hole not drilled in outer sprocket center. I am changing gearboxes around a lot so I prefer this mod.
Small amount of metal axle rod extends beyond sprocket outward center used in sprocket removal. This is optional. If stock appearance is required, this can be cut off and hole not drilled in outer sprocket center. I am changing gearboxes around a lot so I prefer this mod.
Complete dual MTM GB assemblies ready for installation. As seen here is a UNIVERSAL TAMIYA\ACADEMY CONFIGURATION to fit in a wide range of models by simply drilling one hole in each side of the Hull of any Tamiya model. Step 2, install stock drive sprocket using included poly bushing.
Complete dual MTM GB assemblies ready for installation. As seen here is a UNIVERSAL TAMIYA\ACADEMY CONFIGURATION to fit in a wide range of models by simply drilling one hole in each side of the Hull of any Tamiya model. Step 2, install stock drive sprocket using included poly bushing.
exact location of gearbox mount micro screws
exact location of gearbox mount micro screws
Gearbox and sprocket ready for installation. 1 hole must be drilled in an exact location on the side hull to mount the GB.
Gearbox and sprocket ready for installation. 1 hole must be drilled in an exact location on the side hull to mount the GB.
A tie strap secures the 2 piece plastic GB outer housing.
A tie strap secures the 2 piece plastic GB outer housing.
Adapter is press fit onto plastic outer layer of output shaft. A metal rod is the core of the output shaft and a bit is protruding from the black outer collar.The metal rod is continuous through the output shaft due to proper assembly of axle.
Adapter is press fit onto plastic outer layer of output shaft. A metal rod is the core of the output shaft and a bit is protruding from the black outer collar.The metal rod is continuous through the output shaft due to proper assembly of axle.
White tube comes with the MTM kit. I added a plastic nut and trimmed the tube to an exact length to allow most stock Tamiya drive sprockets to interface with no mods. This will allow MTM gearbox to fit a wide variety of models. Sprocket is held on by resistance fit of poly bearing in the sprocket. There is no instruction video that I see for the drive sprocket interface nor gearbox mounting that I am aware of so I developed these techniques for solving those installations. I am sure there are other methods but these meet my requirements. Gearbox and sprockets must be removable and gearbox must come apart easily for service repair. (no glue mount)
White tube comes with the MTM kit. I added a plastic nut and trimmed the tube to an exact length to allow most stock Tamiya drive sprockets to interface with no mods. This will allow MTM gearbox to fit a wide variety of models. Sprocket is held on by resistance fit of poly bearing in the sprocket. There is no instruction video that I see for the drive sprocket interface nor gearbox mounting that I am aware of so I developed these techniques for solving those installations. I am sure there are other methods but these meet my requirements. Gearbox and sprockets must be removable and gearbox must come apart easily for service repair. (no glue mount)
Mounting screw location is the key to track tension and gearbox mounting. Both problems solved with one micro screw. No glue is required to install adapter to output shaft. Resistance fit works fine for the load requirements. A small amount of CA would secure the adapter if required
Mounting screw location is the key to track tension and gearbox mounting. Both problems solved with one micro screw. No glue is required to install adapter to output shaft. Resistance fit works fine for the load requirements. A small amount of CA would secure the adapter if required
Last edited by modler on Wed Aug 10, 2022 2:40 pm, edited 10 times in total.
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c.rainford73
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Re: 1/35 Tamiya M10 TD with MTM gearbox now with Video

Post by c.rainford73 »

You are the master of these micro machines :clap: very nice idea with the single screw!
Tanks alot.... :wave:
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modler
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Re: 1/35 Tamiya M10 TD with MTM gearbox now with Video

Post by modler »

c.rainford73 wrote:You are the master of these micro machines :clap: very nice idea with the single screw!
Yeah, I come up with a good one now and then :D

Ok I just did a endurance run of the M10 and got to 40 minutes of continuous bench track run on a 150 mah 1s Li-poly :crazy:

This is the most efficient 1/35 Tank drive line yet. The M10 with this driveline is now my favorite "micro machine" as you put it c.rainford73.

I can not believe the low speed throttle resolution of these gearboxes, it ads to the model driving experience and I am totally impressed with how they work. I will be doing several more with this setup. I just ordered 8 gearboxes from the site. I don't get anything from this as I am just mentioning it in case anyone wants to know where to get them.

MTM website.
https://makethemmove.com/en/home/

Latest video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjPrjs5aVrw
Attachments
Two of these beauties
Two of these beauties
218 grams with Tamiya gearboxes.
218 grams with Tamiya gearboxes.
148 grams with MTM gearboxes! Lightest RRC 1/35 scale Tank to date
148 grams with MTM gearboxes! Lightest RRC 1/35 scale Tank to date
That is a very small li-poly 150 mah 1s that gives this tank an easy 40 minutes run time! It is super efficient with the 150 RPM gearboxes. The metal part of the gearbox less the unique black plastic cover mounts, pinion gear, are available on Ebay in different RPM ranges and I ordered some different RPM range GB of 500, 300, 200 RPM and will be experimenting with those for different speed ranges. (Faster than the stock 150 rpm) for wheeled vehicles.
That is a very small li-poly 150 mah 1s that gives this tank an easy 40 minutes run time! It is super efficient with the 150 RPM gearboxes. The metal part of the gearbox less the unique black plastic cover mounts, pinion gear, are available on Ebay in different RPM ranges and I ordered some different RPM range GB of 500, 300, 200 RPM and will be experimenting with those for different speed ranges. (Faster than the stock 150 rpm) for wheeled vehicles.
IMG_8810.jpg (95.52 KiB) Viewed 6348 times
IMG_8806.jpg
IMG_8806.jpg (89.2 KiB) Viewed 6348 times
Ideal for the MTM conversion as success is easily achieved with the smooth operation of the poly track\sprockets.
Ideal for the MTM conversion as success is easily achieved with the smooth operation of the poly track\sprockets.
IMG_8805.jpg (66.45 KiB) Viewed 6348 times
The tracks and drive sprockets work very well on this model and it takes very little power to drive the tracks.
The tracks and drive sprockets work very well on this model and it takes very little power to drive the tracks.
IMG_8804.jpg (66.8 KiB) Viewed 6348 times
tracks are exactly where they need to be
tracks are exactly where they need to be
IMG_8801 (1).jpg (93.22 KiB) Viewed 6348 times
Last edited by modler on Wed Aug 10, 2022 2:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1/35 Tamiya M10 TD with MTM gearbox now with Video

Post by Herr Dr. Professor »

Forty minutes is a lo-o-n-g run; at least it would be for me. That's impressive, and with no plastic melty-welty! By the way, it seem you are getting the MakeThemMove electronics and gearboxes from France surprisingly quickly. How long is it taking? (I noticed that last month a parcel from Germany came to me in less time than before Covid-19.)
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Re: 1/35 Tamiya M10 TD with MTM gearbox now with Video

Post by modler »

Herr Dr. Professor wrote:Forty minutes is a lo-o-n-g run; at least it would be for me. That's impressive, and with no plastic melty-welty! By the way, it seem you are getting the MakeThemMove electronics and gearboxes from France surprisingly quickly. How long is it taking? (I noticed that last month a parcel from Germany came to me in less time than before Covid-19.)
That last parcel from France took about 2 weeks. Cush from MTM says my latest order will go out today so I will let you know when it gets here.

I ordered some N20 motors\gearboxes from ebay in various RPM ranges (~200-500) The default MTM is 150 RPM and will be experimenting with these to fine tune the speed range I am looking for. The M4 Half track build uses a 150 RPM MTM gearbox which works very well but I would like the M4 to go a bit faster on the work bench "micro track". I also will upgrade the M4 HT to 1 screw mount gearbox. As it is now, it is glued it place with POR glue, the MTM plastic gearbox housing halves are "taped" together at this point and I will be changing that to the "tie strap" mod as well. Meanwhile the M10 project with the MTM gearboxes is a total success and opens up future 1/35 builds that I have wanted to do for years but did not have the appropriate gearbox tech util now.
Attachments
Assembly instructions. I altered a critical factor in the assembly that IMO makes the output axle strong enough to drive poly tracks. I changed the assembly in the area of the two "red circles" in the assembly instructions from a two piece axle glued together to a 1 piece axle with continuous steel axle rod through the assembly.
Assembly instructions. I altered a critical factor in the assembly that IMO makes the output axle strong enough to drive poly tracks. I changed the assembly in the area of the two "red circles" in the assembly instructions from a two piece axle glued together to a 1 piece axle with continuous steel axle rod through the assembly.
IMG_8859.JPG (87.71 KiB) Viewed 6301 times
IMG_8855.JPG
IMG_8855.JPG (65.96 KiB) Viewed 6301 times
150 RPM gearbox kit out of the bag
150 RPM gearbox kit out of the bag
IMG_8854.JPG (75.5 KiB) Viewed 6301 times
Last edited by modler on Wed Jul 05, 2023 3:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 1/35 Tamiya M10 TD with MTM gearbox now with Video

Post by modler »

modler wrote: ↑Mon Aug 08, 2022 2:44 pm
Herr Dr. Professor wrote:Forty minutes is a lo-o-n-g run; at least it would be for me. That's impressive, and with no plastic melty-welty! By the way, it seem you are getting the MakeThemMove electronics and gearboxes from France surprisingly quickly. How long is it taking? (I noticed that last month a parcel from Germany came to me in less time than before Covid-19.)
That last parcel from France took about 2 weeks. Cush from MTM says my latest order will go out today so I will let you know when it gets here.

I ordered some N20 motors\gearboxes from ebay in various RPM ranges (~200-500) The default MTM is 150 RPM and will be experimenting with these to fine tune the speed range I am looking for. The M4 Half track build uses a 150 RPM MTM gearbox which works very well but I would like the M4 to go a bit faster on the workbench "micro track". I also will upgrade the M4 HT to 1 screw mount gearbox. As it is now, it is glued it place with POR glue, the MTM plastic gearbox housing halves are "taped" together at this point and I will be changing that to the "tie strap" mod as well. Meanwhile the M10 project with the MTM gearboxes is a total success and opens up future 1/35 builds that I have wanted to do for years but did not have the appropriate gearbox tech util now.
I will upgrade this thread with High resolution pictures and continue the build of this MTM equipped M10.

M10 video
https://youtu.be/DjPrjs5aVrw
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Re: 1/35 Tamiya M10 TD with MTM gearbox now with Video

Post by Ecam »

Wow, great video, spectacular view out the window. I find it difficult at times to squeeze RC stuff in 16th, and yet you pull it of in 35th!?! Well done!
"Don't believe everything you see on the internet" - George S. Patton

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Re: 1/35 Tamiya M10 TD with MTM gearbox now with Video

Post by modler »

Ecam wrote: ↑Sun Jan 29, 2023 8:14 pm Wow, great video, spectacular view out the window. I find it difficult at times to squeeze RC stuff in 16th, and yet you pull it of in 35th!?! Well done!
Thanks for the reply :D I like the smalls because it allows me to have MORE models ;)

Below are High Resolution pictures showing good detail. :thumbup:
Attachments
IMG_8771.jpg
IMG_8771.jpg (1.39 MiB) Viewed 1845 times
IMG_8770.jpg
IMG_8770.jpg (2.38 MiB) Viewed 1845 times
IMG_8767.jpg
IMG_8767.jpg (1.74 MiB) Viewed 1845 times
Stock Tamiya Sprocket fits this custom axle
Stock Tamiya Sprocket fits this custom axle
IMG_8761.jpg (2.69 MiB) Viewed 1845 times
GB mounting screw visible here
GB mounting screw visible here
IMG_8754.jpg (1.8 MiB) Viewed 1845 times
IMG_8753.jpg
IMG_8753.jpg (1.53 MiB) Viewed 1845 times
IMG_8752.jpg
IMG_8752.jpg (2.79 MiB) Viewed 1845 times
IMG_8784.jpg
IMG_8784.jpg (2.9 MiB) Viewed 1845 times
Last edited by modler on Tue Dec 12, 2023 3:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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