Panther II Hybrid

This section is for builds that are not strictly Tamiya or Heng Long. For instance, replacing the electronics from a WSN or Matorro, or even a scratch-build.
SCHWEREPANZER
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Panther II Hybrid

Post by SCHWEREPANZER »

For reasons I can't explain, the Panther II has held a strange fascination for me. To add one to the model panzer grounds I host, the only real option was the kit by our own Chris Ludwig. But, the thoughts of making a model out of flat styrene plastic sheets was daunting and once I got into it, an even steeper learning curve than I thought or was used to. I thought that utilizing a Tamiya or Heng Long hull as a starting point and re-spacing the lauffrollen in the sixth position could be an option, but realized right away, that was probably beyond my modeling skills. So, for better or for worse I stuck to the flat styrene option, and I suppose it came to look something like the Panther II we're all familiar with, at least from the hull downward.

As much as the Panther II looks very much like a standard production Panther, none of the parts were interchangeable 'in real life' and the various pertinent angles and linear measurements were not the same. Chris's kit offered the correct angles and as far as I can tell, the correct other measurements as well. The reader is directed to the seminal work by Jentz and Doyle in Panzer Tracts No. 5-4, "Panzerkampfwagen Panther II and Panther Ausfuehrung F." Since I am among the least imaginative persons in the world when it comes to modeling, I admit at the outset, I simply (shamelessly) copied (or tried to) the works of others.

I have not documented each step along this long road, so what follows are just some of the pictorial highlights of the build process, omitting most of the many, many frustrations encountered along the way, and also here deleting the verbal vulgarities for sensitive ears and eyes.

The journey began inauspiciously enough:
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Not pictured is the torsion bar set up which utilizes the standard Tamiya flat blade 'torsion bars' and their accompanying interior mounting lugs. The interlocking side panels create a strong mortise joint with the glacis and rear plate though the mortise extensions do need to be worked and sanded heavily to create a realistic interlocking appearance. Had I had the foresight at this point, I would have purchased a set of scribbing blades to create a proper channel for 'weld.' I did purchase some later in the build process for use on the turret. It was a wise and inexpensive investment and they worked great and I regret not having had them for this early stage of the build.
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The rectangular grills are plastic-like screens. The idea was next to add a second mesh grill of a slightly different mesh opening size to create a double mesh grill effect, an idea (shamelessly) copied from an example seen elsewhere. The brass mesh grills are PE for a Tiger I.
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Sharp eyes will have seen that I failed to place a bevel at the bottom of the deck plate where it meets top interior of the rear plate. This is the same type of problem encountered when building the Wecohe Panther as those who have done so will appreciate. Though not entirely corrected as the build progressed, the error was somewhat ameliorated by an application of putty filler which actually worked quite well for the purpose. While I am aware of the flaw, it's not really so obvious later in the build. I mention it here because the absence of beveled parts is something to keep in mind when constructing a tank from flat styrene, another factor I failed to take into consideration at the outset.

Not that I intended to end this, my first ever posted build report on the note that I failed to do this or that, let me do just that while I make some corrections to my photo album.
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Ad Lav
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Re: Panther II Hybrid

Post by Ad Lav »

Ralph, lovely to see one of your builds.

Keep up the good work.
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HERMAN BIX
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Re: Panther II Hybrid

Post by HERMAN BIX »

you wont get any finger pointing from me mate............more like dumb looks and envious stares :haha:
The Panther 2 has always intrigued me too, love to see what you do with it.
HL JAGDPANTHER,HL TIGER 1,HL PzIII MUNITIONSCHLEPPER, HL KT OCTOPUS,HL PANTHER ZU-FUSS,HL STuG III,HL T34/85 BEDSPRING,
HL PZIV MALTA,MATORRO JAGDTIGER,HL F05 TIGER,TAMIYA KT,HL PANTHERDOZER,HL EARLY PANTHER G,TAIGEN/RAMINATOR T34/76,
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SCHWEREPANZER
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Re: Panther II Hybrid

Post by SCHWEREPANZER »

After attempting both Taigen Panther and Tiger II swing arms for the chassis, I settled on the Panther arms and a rolling chassis consisting of Taigen Tiger II road wheels, Kenny Kong Tiger II transport tracks with 16 spoke drive sprocket and Taigen idlers.
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The interior wheel hubs, unique to the Panther II are courtesy of our own Woz who was kind enough to make these per my measurements and which are now available on Shapeways. I had used them on another tank, a hybrid Panther F and was pleased with the effect.
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The profile of the outer road wheels, while close, was not quite what I had been looking for in this build. The problem was there were no correct profile Panther II outer road wheels. Working with another of our colleagues, PatrickH, we came up with the idea of replacing the outward facing outer and inner road wheels with 3-D printed wheels that could attach to the metal inner paired corresponding wheel. This was an 'iffy' proposition, concerning because we didn't know quite how to mate them and retain some structural stability to the model.
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Before going to 'press' making 14 outer road wheels at potential significant time, effort, resin product (and money), the theory was put into practice by making a pair of the unique 8-spoke Panther II idlers.
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SCHWEREPANZER
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Re: Panther II Hybrid

Post by SCHWEREPANZER »

Here is the result of the experiment. In the original metal idler, the attaching axle pin extends through both the outer wheel and the tube housing and through the two inner idler wheels and then, finally, into the idler arm. To make up for the absence of the space taken up by outer wheel inside the tube, an elaborate system of three stacked bushings were created. Sort of like the stacked Russian doll treatment. I'm sorry I failed to take a picture of this stacked bushing system. My thanks to PatrickH for coming up with it. It was an important part of maintaining body integrity for the idler because we needed the axle pin to protrude only a certain set distance into the idler arm.
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So pleased with the way this noble experiment in resin matching with metal seemed to work, the thought of doing the same thing with the drive sprocket immediately became a possibility. The sprocket teeth for the Panther II sprocket are slightly different than those on the standard 16 tooth Tiger II sprocket after which the former is modeled. In fact, Jentz and Doyle speak to two different types of Panther II sprocket teeth.

Here's what the 3-D version would look like.
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The jury is still out for incorporating the resin outer sprocket. Though the shape of the sprocket teeth is slightly more accurate as is the smooth slope of the sprocket spokes on the Panther II compared to the dog-leg production Tiger II sprocket, the structural integrity of the running gear with resin road wheels and idlers might be a bit weak even if this is only a static model (GAWD, did I use those words here??!!)

Next up, the model gets more into focus.
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Re: Panther II Hybrid

Post by sassgrunt »

Ralph, your outer roadwheels look great, and those idlers - they really are a "make or break" factor in a Panther II build! PLEASE consider making them available to us mere mortals through Shapeways or somewhere!
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Ad Lav
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Re: Panther II Hybrid

Post by Ad Lav »

Excellent custom work!

Patrick has helped me out with his resin printing on my Jagdpanther build. I must admit the finish is much better than standard printing but alas a bit more expensive.

I shall approach Patrick about the Idler for my build.

Tracks look ace ;)
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STHV
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Re: Panther II Hybrid

Post by STHV »

Awesome build! Its great to see a Panther II build

Which turret are you planning to give it?
Panther Ausf D (WIP)
Panther Ausf A mit Brückentafel (WIP)
Panther Ausf G (WIP)
Jagdpanther G2 (WIP)
Tiger II (WIP)
Pz.Kpfw. VIII Maus V2 (WIP)
Pz.Kpfw. II Ausf L (WIP)
Sd.Kfz. 234/2 (WIP)
Leopard 1A4/1A1A1 (WIP)
Turm III (WIP)
VK 45.01 (H) (WIP)
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43rdRecceReg
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Re: Panther II Hybrid

Post by 43rdRecceReg »

A fascinating build! I just wish it packed in a few more of those mouth-watering pics- especially of the interior layout!
Following along with great interest! :thumbup:
"Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please"- Mark Twain.
SCHWEREPANZER
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Re: Panther II Hybrid

Post by SCHWEREPANZER »

Hi Mike,

Thanks for your kind words. I'll pass them on to PatrickH. I'm quite sure he'd make them a Shapeways staple given a demand. The question of mating the resin wheel and at the same time affording some stability to the metal wheel pairing is in the manner in which the two inner facings dovetail together. It will make a difference whether the backside of the resin outer wheel is mated to a Taigen pairing or any other brand wheel. Still, I think the matter is really one of tweaking the design of the backside of the resin wheel so it mates properly with its metal partner. A few pictures might help explain it better.
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Hopefully, to above pictures help get the point across that the backside of the wheel on the right (when in resin) has the correct profile in diameter and depth to mate with the metal wheel on the left side of the picture.

Here are the pictures for the road wheels in the 2, 4, and 6th positions.
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All this by way of saying that I believe the process can be made to work with other than Taigen Tiger II wheels with a little 3-D CAD tweaking.
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