RC 1/16 M3 Lee - early production tank - build

This section is for builds that are not strictly Tamiya or Heng Long. For instance, replacing the electronics from a WSN or Matorro, or even a scratch-build.
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lmcq11
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RC 1/16 M3 Lee - early production tank - build

Post by lmcq11 »

Hi everyone,

Another month of pandemic confinement means another project and probably a fast build.

My next project will be to try to produce the best US M3 Lee tank that i can make.

A precursor to the Sherman design, its unique early war weapon configuration, the number of variants and choice of markings makes it a most interesting tank.
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
Capture0.JPG (73.73 KiB) Viewed 4947 times
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
Capture00.JPG (76.94 KiB) Viewed 4947 times
It was provided on lend lease to the Soviets.
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
The M3 Lee offers the opportunity for a lot of RC action, with its main 75mm gun, secondary 37mm on turret and Browning on the cupola.
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
Capture2.JPG (73.02 KiB) Viewed 4947 times
Four years ago, i created a M3 Lee with the material and my skills of the time. It is based on the Vandra kit and is mostly static with only the gearbox. I made some attempts at the time to fix some issues but i did not go all the way. It was based on a Heng Long M4A3. I drilled out the roadwheels, idler and flattened the chevron on the tracks. I beefed up the turret with the application of a plasticard sheet layer to make it a bit bigger. It looks ok but i think i can make a much better one now, and packed with RC features.
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
It will be based on the Mato M4A1 chassis. Last year, Mato Mart was selling their older basic plastic M4A1 chassis and letting them go at clearance cost of about $40 each with gearbox, tracks and speaker. A good bargain on black friday with free shipping, i picked up 3 of them with other stuff. One will obviously become an M36 in a future build.
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
For the 1/16 build, i will be helped by the latest 1/35 Miniart M3 Lee kit for shapes and dimensions. This kit comes with full interior and is a real gem for a 1/35 builder.
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
The M3 Lee was produced in multiple, sometime confusing versions, it is better to use good references and stick to one specimen in order not to mix components from various versions into an unrealistic model.
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
I also have on inventory the older Tamiya kit from the 70s for comparison.
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
I purchased another Vandra M3 Lee kit as base kit for the conversion. This time, it will be butchered.
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
Continuing on following post
Last edited by lmcq11 on Mon Oct 12, 2020 5:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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lmcq11
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Re: RC 1/16 M3 Lee - early production tank - build

Post by lmcq11 »

I am not impressed with any M3 Lee conversion kit on the market. They are all wrong in some ways or another, and i am not even talking about their price.

Vandra has the cheapest conversion kit on the market and have based it on a later M3 version without right door and cupola. But it does not take long to notice its major flaw, the size of the turret.

According to my calculations extrapolated from the Miniart kit, the Vandra turret is missing a whopping 18.8mm in diameter., yes its too small by 18.8mm in diameter. When comparing to the 70s Tamiya kit, it is a bit less at 16.6mm. If this was happening to a Tiger or Panther turret, i am pretty sure there would be a modeler's uprising. Same thing exists for the Walker Bulldog. After so many year of seeing the bad Heng Long kit around, many guys probably think this is how it looked. I wonder why kit designers could not figure out the correct size of the M3 turret. Its round... Use your ruler man.
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
Comparing the shape of the Tamiya (front) with the Miniart turret at the back. It seems Tamiya got the upper turret shape wrong, too round, and it should not be used as reference. I did not see any references indicating a different model of turret (prototype, early or late) that would explain the differences in shape. Miniart is the one to be used.
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
Although the Vandra turret has the look of an M3 turret, the fact that it is greatly undersized means it will require major surgery, similar to what i had to do with the Walker Bulldog turret, if not a total rebuild.
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
Overlaying the Miniart upper hull on top of the Tamiya kit, we can see the differences. The location and center point of the turret needs to be carefully studied in order not to make mistakes.
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
Now, comparing the 1/35 kit with the Vandra 1/16 hull where everything at first sight seems ok, it takes some real analysis to determine what is exactly wrong with it. Why is the turret so small but seems to fill mostly the same area with just a couple of mm in differences ?
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
It take thorough analysis with a calculator to try to find where the issue reside. Its clear that the turret cannot be made bigger without major rework of the upper hull top.
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
So far, i determined the upper top and the sides before the side doors need to be made at least 5mm longer towards the front, and rework the angle of the transversal separation bars in between, and the angles of the frontal armor. The turret ring needs to be 14mm larger and the turret will sit on it. The round plate for the main gun also need to be about 5mm larger in diameter. The overall width and length of the model are ok, surely because it needed to fit a Sherman hull... The back of the upper hull is good.
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
The upper front plate also need to be longer, reducing the size of the plate below accordingly. The whole frontal plates area need rework because of the longer upper hull top.
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
The Vandra kit is missing the cupola. I noticed an advertised 1/16 M3 Lee cupola on Shapeways. However, it is wrong for this build. It is missing 11mm in diameter... It is even too small to fit the reduced Vandra turret. Not sure what turret this cupola was designed to sit on, but it is definitely not 1/16 scale and not a good investment for this build. Too bad, i will have to scratch build the cupola.
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
Some other purchased shown here to help me with the build.
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
Continuing on following post
Last edited by lmcq11 on Mon Nov 02, 2020 12:18 am, edited 8 times in total.
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lmcq11
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Re: RC 1/16 M3 Lee - early production tank - build

Post by lmcq11 »

These are Shapeways spoked roadwheels to match the MATO size and rubber ring, and spoked idler wheel
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
These are Metal Mato Sherman track adjusters.
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
Studying the Miniart and Tamiya show differences in the size of the early M3 bogies. This info will be used for the bogies conversion.
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
The Shapeways M3 suspension conversion kit will be used but will require major modifications.
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
These are Mato metal sprockets.
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
The plan is to use the Mato M4A1 chassis and gearbox.
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
Being an M4A1, the rear engine doors do not need modifications.
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
The Sherman bogies will be removed and replaced by custom made M3 bogies> This type of work is always on a best effort basis.
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
The Mato bogies are extending towards the outside in many ways. I will correct that if it makes sense and will adjust sprockets and idlers accordingly.
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
The shapeways M3 conversion parts seems to fit the Mato bogies. But before going too far with this build, a proof of concept is required.
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
continuing on following post
Last edited by lmcq11 on Mon Oct 12, 2020 5:20 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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lmcq11
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Re: RC 1/16 M3 Lee - early production tank - build

Post by lmcq11 »

Starting a proof of concept of modifying the Mato Sherman bogie into an M3 bogie.
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
Shapeways spoked wheels fit well after drilling the center holes to ensure they spin freely. Rubber rim fits well.
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
The central core of the Mato bogie is cut in pieces in preparation for fitting the Shapeways conversion that were designed for Heng Long.
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
The extended width of the Mato bogie is reduced by 1 mm on both sides for a better representation and accuracy.
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
The Mickey mouse ears for the suspension spring housing on the Shapeways units are way too big and must be cut to show them with no more than 4mm in width, ideally 3mm for each spring housing cover.
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
They can be easily cut, reduced in size and glued back in place.
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
The Mato sherman rollers are a disgrace and cannot be reused. They are 5mm too big in diameter. New ones are being created by overlapping tubes up to the desired size that will fit the bogie, ideally around 13mm.
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
The new roller. was brought up to 12mm in size. Any bigger will be an issue fitting it in place. The tracks cannot be made to roll higher than they are on the chassis, otherwise it will look real bad.
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
And here is the proof of concept prototype of conversion a Mato Sherman bogie into a M3 bogie. Again, this type of work is done on a best effort basis but it seems to look good and is solid. The roller is let loose over the 3D printed axle.
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
I would have liked to reduce its height by another mm but could not do it without impacting its RC functioning. The roller is at about the same height as the previous Sherman bogie and this is what should be aimed for, i think...
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
continuing on following post
Last edited by lmcq11 on Sat Oct 17, 2020 6:54 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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lmcq11
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Re: RC 1/16 M3 Lee - early production tank - build

Post by lmcq11 »

Using this prototype, a production chain will be created for the other 5 bogies.
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
Another area of concern is the fit of the Mato hull with the Vandra kit designed for the Heng Long M4A3. The frontal area is discarded using the Dremel, keeping the sprocket plates intact.
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
The right gearbox need to have its plastic cover removed in order to clear the flat area of the front of the upper hull main gun. The Mato gears are not touching anything and that is what is important.
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
After removing about 1mm of plastic on each side of the Mato chassis, the Vandra upper hull sits well on it. Good integration, its going to work.
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
After a good study and preparation of the Mato front to determine its proper position to fit the upper hull (height is important), the Vandra early type 3 piece gearbox cover fits correctly after putting the upper portion of it over boiling water to make it sit against the chassis at the right height. More about the integration later.
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
Next step is to convert the other bogies and properly install the Vandra upper up on the chassis. That will set the stage for the surgery on the upper hull.

Regards, Louis
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Re: RC 1/16 M3 Lee - early production tank - build

Post by B_Man »

Wow Louis, you don't sit still for long. I'm looking forward o following another one of your great builds.
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Re: RC 1/16 M3 Lee - early production tank - build

Post by Model Builder 4 »

Following along again Louis :D the M3 Lee is also on my long list of to do's :/ I'm sure I'll pick up many tips from your build :thumbup:

Cheers, Lee.
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Kaczor
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Re: RC 1/16 M3 Lee - early production tank - build

Post by Kaczor »

Would be great to make molds from your proper size turret ;)
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Re: RC 1/16 M3 Lee - early production tank - build

Post by Xiaoshan_Sailor »

Am following this excellent subject. :thumbup:
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Son of a gun-ner
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Re: RC 1/16 M3 Lee - early production tank - build

Post by Son of a gun-ner »

Oh wow, fantastic. Thank you for sharing this, what I know will be an awesome build :clap: :clap:

Sadly they don't appear to produce this with the Grant turrets anymore :(
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