RC 1/16 M3 Lee - early production tank - build

This section is for builds that are not strictly Tamiya or Heng Long. For instance, replacing the electronics from a WSN or Matorro, or even a scratch-build.
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lmcq11
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Re: RC 1/16 M3 Lee - early production tank - build

Post by lmcq11 »

Hi,

This set of posts is for the preparation and re-sizing of the Vandra Model M3 hull in order to allow the installation of a turret of the proper size.

First thing is to add the track adjuster and the tracks.
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
The tracks are pretty tight and its not allowing the adjuster to be in a more raised position. I will see later is adding or removing a link makes a difference in the way the tracks are positioned in relation to the adjuster. At this point, the Vandra upper hull is about 2mm too long (with a Mato chassis at least), the back plate should be flush with the rear plate of the chassis. For now, i am moving on.
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
Final plans are made for the surgery. Need to extend the upper hull by at least 5mm towards the front to make room for the larger turret on top, redo the frontal plates and all features as per references.

Many modellers, having paid good money for a kit, feel somehow obligated to build the model as per instructions. Personally, i never follow instructions and i am not too worry about cracking a hull open to correct designer mistakes.
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
In order to maintain consistency across the tank, all the bolt heads in the areas of rework were salvaged for reuse on the upgraded hull.
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
The upper hull is cut open with a heavy disk blade on the Dremel. The whole operation was cutting through and burning resin with heavy fumes. All the cutting need to be done outside and in a light breeze. All the plastic and resin sanding for this work is done wearing an N95 mask, an absolute must to preserve lungs and health.
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
A new upper plate is created in 2mm plasticard with the optimal dimensions required. Remains to be seen how it can fit.
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
With the new top tentatively in place, the frontal section need to be put back... All the rework is done in a telescopic fashion, one area at a time, and cutting the plasticard slowly while positioning each touch points.
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
You can see where this is going. The ring for the new turret has been drawn on the upper hull, that is untouchable and must fit. But all the rest needs to be adjusted. I found that the Miniart kit is a bit longer than a regular Sherman hull and using it to extrapolate 1/16 measurements for this conversion is creating issues, parts becoming too big. For the hull dimensions, i recommend using the Tamiya kit which is a bit smaller and closer to the Mato hull when trying to replicate in 1/16. Small adjustments and cheating is required here and there to adapt to the rest of the Vandra hull, which is not perfect. In order to have a better fit and get back a few mm in length, i can see now that redoing the frontal armor as per references is essential.
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
The upper section of the glacis is too short. The visor is totally squeezed in and not realistic.
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
Continuing on following post.
Last edited by lmcq11 on Sun Oct 18, 2020 10:37 pm, edited 5 times in total.
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lmcq11
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Re: RC 1/16 M3 Lee - early production tank - build

Post by lmcq11 »

The upper section should be 35mm in height, the lower one 40.
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
The new upper section is applied as an overlay, the old one behind is removed, freeing about 3mm in space on the turret top.
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
Plasticard strips are used to fill the gaps.
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
Superglue is used as putty and sanded smooth in 2 or 3 rounds for a strong joint. All the lines between the armored plates will need to be re-scribed.
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
This is the situation on the right side. The gap needs to be filled.
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
The tower rim needs to extend more towards the front. a 4mm plasticard are used.
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
Every joints are reinforced underneath.
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
Now i have a good base to continue with the build, a good size turret will fit in. All the detailing need to be redone at the right location, and all the bolt heads put back..
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
Continuing on following post.
Last edited by lmcq11 on Sun Oct 18, 2020 11:13 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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lmcq11
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Re: RC 1/16 M3 Lee - early production tank - build

Post by lmcq11 »

This is the new upper hull top, with the dimensions indicated.
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
Space for the turret needed to come from somewhere. The upper hull now extends by 5mm towards the rear, 3mm more than before. But this area is covered by the air filters and the armored plates on top, it will not show much. Compared with having a perfectly sized turret, this is the better compromise, a decision the designer should have taken.
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
This is comparing the Vandra kit turret to the new ring size of proper dimension, showing how undersized it is. I am surprised that the Americans did not complain much, not that i have heard. Do this to a Tiger turret and there would be an uprising, fresh meat for bloggers who would complain for months.
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
Now, i am currently scavenging the house for any round plastic material that is 96mm wide to use as a round body for the new turret... Looks like a Costco almond bottle might do the trick.
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
This is the model as it stands today.
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
Regards, Louis
Last edited by lmcq11 on Sun Oct 18, 2020 10:51 pm, edited 4 times in total.
ronnie42
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Re: RC 1/16 M3 Lee - early production tank - build

Post by ronnie42 »

Wish Trumpeter would do the 1/16 kits without the interior or a simplified version . The Panther kits upper hull is almost a perfect fit on the Taigen lower, only spoiled by sprocket height and being slightly set back due to the need to fit the gears.
Tiger6
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Re: RC 1/16 M3 Lee - early production tank - build

Post by Tiger6 »

If you have access to a 3D printer Louis, I did start on a replacement turret shell that I would be willing to share...
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lmcq11
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Re: RC 1/16 M3 Lee - early production tank - build

Post by lmcq11 »

Tiger6 wrote:If you have access to a 3D printer Louis, I did start on a replacement turret shell that I would be willing to share...
Hi, thank you for the offer. But as you can imagine, building the turret is a key fun part of the build, i really want to do it myself.

I did study the Miniart turret. The turret is not cylindrical, it has a small slope going down from the top in most areas.
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
Capture.JPG (92.99 KiB) Viewed 1547 times
However, under the cupula, the turret is fully vertical.
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
Study of references show that the turret of the early versions is sitting directly on top of the hull turret ring, not inside but directly on top. Vandra is correctly showing a late model outer ring that i have seen on Prime Portal surviving example.
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
The cupola is also not positioned as far outside of the turret ring like some modeling companies have represented it. I have seen models with the cupola way too outside. Also notice the variation on the casting under the cupola compared to the previous picture.
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
The hull turret ring of 102mm in diameter is made in 1mm plasticard using a simple geometry kit. The plasticard is lightly engraved with the point of the tool in a circular movement, then the plasticard is snapped off the part and sanded smooth. With the number of rings and roundels needed on my builds, i am getting a compass cutter, more efficient.
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
Capture5.JPG (94.85 KiB) Viewed 1547 times
The ring is positioned on the hull.
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
The turret body is made to be 102mm in diameter at the bottom and 40mm high. The turret roundels are made to be 98mm wide knowing that the 1mm side armor plate around will add 2mm and the ring at the base is adding another 2mm in diameter, giving a planned total of 102mm. The mounts are given a small slope towards the inside top, except under the cupula.
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
Checking the situation on the hull before applying the armor plates. Thickness is given to the turret top in order to create a curved shape around it later.
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
The 1mm thick plasticard armor is put on.
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
The angle of the armored plate for the gun mount is carefully calculated, cut off with the Dremel and then sanded flat.
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
Continuing on following post.
Last edited by lmcq11 on Mon Nov 02, 2020 12:14 am, edited 5 times in total.
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lmcq11
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Re: RC 1/16 M3 Lee - early production tank - build

Post by lmcq11 »

Measurements for the gun mount are extrapolated from the Miniart 1/35 kit and the frontal plate is made. I also added the ring at the bottom of the turret. A flat surface of the right dimension is made for the cupola and positioned on the turret.
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
After 30 minutes of sanding, the 1/16 turret body is taking shape and it is starting to resemble its smaller counterpart. Not bad for 2 evenings of work.
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
Still need some sanding to do to get it right, but i will finish it outside tomorrow. Dust management is starting to become an issue inside the workplace.
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
View of the new turret body next to the Vandra kit turret.
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
View of the turret body on top of the chassis.
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
It is refreshing to finally see a 1/16 scale M3 Lee with its turret having the right size and shape. Thank you Miniart for the measurements.
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
RC 1/16 M3 Lee early production tank - build
There is so much left to do but i am satisfied with the way the build is going so far. This will be a good looking M3 Lee.

Regards, Louis
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Jimster
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Re: RC 1/16 M3 Lee - early production tank - build

Post by Jimster »

I really enjoy your build threads probably more than any others. Mostly because of your talent for scratch building parts that appear daunting to say the least. It’s like attending a modeling seminar.
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Kaczor
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Re: RC 1/16 M3 Lee - early production tank - build

Post by Kaczor »

That are outstanding modeling skills! Before I had a plan to buy Vandra kit but after seeing amount of work needed to make it proper I'm leaning towards designing it and 3D printing ;)
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B_Man
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Re: RC 1/16 M3 Lee - early production tank - build

Post by B_Man »

If only Mr Vandra had a set of calipers and a calculator.
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