VC Firefly- HengLong / DGS Conversion

[B_Man]

That's an open and honest assessment of the shortcomings of this kit. I wish Nick Aguilar would do a Firefly conversion, his resin kits are first class.
Good work on the build. It's coming along nicely.

[tomhugill]

He does a turret and his small hatch is suitable for an ic

[dgsselkirk]

"Overall I'm not to impressed with the accuracy of this kit. For £150 I expect a little more detail and for it to be accurate- P.S I'm not a rivet counter, honest!"

Hi IronDuke,
First, thank you for spending some of your hard earned money for the purchase of one of our kits and I'm sorry if you feel that the kit is not up to your standards. Second thank you for taking the time to post your build with descriptions and pictures of issues you have encountered. I can tell you this, Vandra and I do have lots of happy customers who thank us profusely that someone stepped up and spent some serious (serious to me anyway) coin to give the marketplace a truly Allied Commonwealth tank. Is the resin casting perfect? No, there are some details that could be a little crisper, a little straighter, etc... But resin is really, really tough to work with when you are making such big pieces in this scale as opposed to 1/35th. I personally feel that the kit does have a lot of detail and huge choices in actual tanks you can create. For example, we could have adjusted the upper to fit the HL A3 kit for length but we knew that some builders would want it to actually be the correct length and that they would modify the lower hull and so we did it correctly. In fact there are some accurate details on this kit that are ONLY on the 1:1 A4, and I will bet the average modeler can't find them all!

Nick makes some great stuff no question, but it is also priced for his quality. He does not mass produce which means when you see his stuff buy it! I think he would probably concur just how hard it is to cast large pieces. Can you imagine the price Nick will charge for a FULL Firefly kit like this one? Perhaps someone can remind the readers of this thread how much one of Nicks turrets only, costs? Just shipping alone on these damn things is expensive.

We tried to design this to be a great affordable kit that the AVERAGE R/C modeler would be happy with and be able to build. To give at least one inexpensive Commonwealth tank to take on the Tigers! Anyone who hasn't worked with resin before will find yes, there is a learning curve. Many of the suggestions in this thread and other builds of this kit on this forum can be an alternative to our manual (on my website) for anyone about to, or thinking about, building this kit. Things like how to drill out mounting posts to prevent cracking. (Slow drill NOT a dremel which produces too much heat and start with a bit at lease 3 times smaller than your final size of hole.) Using hot water or a hairdryer (my preference) to alter fits to correct any warpage .

I'm sorry, but I respectfully disagree, FOR THE PRICE, I feel it is an excellent deal and a great overall kit with lots of extras and details. For example the Mato barrel which you got with your kit, decals, tie downs, alternate screens, little things that do not come with a normal resin kit. In our club I have seen MANY German kits at a much higher price with half the extras and the casting is no better than the kits we have supplied.

Again, I'm sorry if the kit did not come up to your standards but I hope upon completion you will have a great operational Firefly VC the only one on the market...

TXS
Dean Godin
DGS Military Hobby

[IronDuke]

"Overall I'm not to impressed with the accuracy of this kit. For £150 I expect a little more detail and for it to be accurate- P.S I'm not a rivet counter, honest!"

Hi IronDuke,
First, thank you for spending some of your hard earned money for the purchase of one of our kits and I'm sorry if you feel that the kit is not up to your standards. Second thank you for taking the time to post your build with descriptions and pictures of issues you have encountered. I can tell you this, Vandra and I do have lots of happy customers who thank us profusely that someone stepped up and spent some serious (serious to me anyway) coin to give the marketplace a truly Allied Commonwealth tank. Is the resin casting perfect? No, there are some details that could be a little crisper, a little straighter, etc... But resin is really, really tough to work with when you are making such big pieces in this scale as opposed to 1/35th. I personally feel that the kit does have a lot of detail and huge choices in actual tanks you can create. For example, we could have adjusted the upper to fit the HL A3 kit for length but we knew that some builders would want it to actually be the correct length and that they would modify the lower hull and so we did it correctly. In fact there are some accurate details on this kit that are ONLY on the 1:1 A4, and I will bet the average modeler can't find them all!

Nick makes some great stuff no question, but it is also priced for his quality. He does not mass produce which means when you see his stuff buy it! I think he would probably concur just how hard it is to cast large pieces. Can you imagine the price Nick will charge for a FULL Firefly kit like this one? Perhaps someone can remind the readers of this thread how much one of Nicks turrets only, costs? Just shipping alone on these damn things is expensive.

We tried to design this to be a great affordable kit that the AVERAGE R/C modeler would be happy with and be able to build. To give at least one inexpensive Commonwealth tank to take on the Tigers! Anyone who hasn't worked with resin before will find yes, there is a learning curve. Many of the suggestions in this thread and other builds of this kit on this forum can be an alternative to our manual (on my website) for anyone about to, or thinking about, building this kit. Things like how to drill out mounting posts to prevent cracking. (Slow drill NOT a dremel which produces too much heat and start with a bit at lease 3 times smaller than your final size of hole.) Using hot water or a hairdryer (my preference) to alter fits to correct any warpage .

I'm sorry, but I respectfully disagree, FOR THE PRICE, I feel it is an excellent deal and a great overall kit with lots of extras and details. For example the Mato barrel which you got with your kit, decals, tie downs, alternate screens, little things that do not come with a normal resin kit. In our club I have seen MANY German kits at a much higher price with half the extras and the casting is no better than the kits we have supplied.

Again, I'm sorry if the kit did not come up to your standards but I hope upon completion you will have a great operational Firefly VC the only one on the market...

TXS
Dean Godin
DGS Military Hobby

Hi Dean,

Thank you for your reply, I appreciate the time and effort spent on responding and agree with many of the points contained within your post-resin is a bugger to work with but great things can be achieved with it!

The first thing I want to say is that the value of anything is down to the individual, some people will find this kit good value for money, others won't, that's life. Knowing what I know now would I buy this kit again? Of course I would, it's a Firefly in 1/16th, how rare is that!!! If it wasn't for small businesses like yours people like me wouldn't be making models. Had this kit not existed I would not have bought another RC tank, it's simple as that! Reference other armour kits or people who make conversions I can't comment as I've not seen or built them.

What I've tried to do is log my build and describe the issues encountered along the way. Im no expert modeller or rivet counting perfectionist, if it looks right I'm happy. When you spend £150 on something the last thing you want to do is break it or do something, in a bid to make the thing fit together, that will irreversibly change the look of it for the worse. Nor do you want to unknowingly build something that is missing obvious detail or is inaccurate. The purpose of sharing builds for me is so that others like me can see what it takes to put a kit like this together and what to watch out for so they don't make a silly mistake. I also do it to show people what they get for their money so they can make an informed choice and to provide feedback to the producer of the product so they can review if any changes need to be made to the molds or instructions.

FYI my main reference for this build is a fantastic book on the Firelfy by Mark Hayward:



In regards to accuracy, I've not got my vernicalipers and scientific calculator out and crunched the numbers, I assure you I am definitely not a rivet counter . From my perspective the overall scale of the kit looks good and it will build in to a fine representation of a firefly. What I've done is looked at visually obvious, stand out, discrepancies that, to me, would be simple to fix at the design/mold making process.

I'm only a third of the way through building this kit so I've not spotted everything that's visually right/wrong with it. I have spotted things that I will not mention as I believe I would then be delving in to the world of the rivet counter. What I and other people have to realise is that this kit is designed to be used as an RC tank and therefore certain aspects, especially in the nooks and crannies of the lower hull will need to be simplified as you won't see them from a foot away or they'll snap off as they're fragile!

If you want to see rivet counting and super detail on one of your kits take a look at this guys work on the forum, his skill levels are through the roof and in part why I'm building your conversion kit! viewtopic.php?f=22&t=20590

His work aside and to explain my rationle on my quote re cost, below is a sample of what I have spotted so far:

The radio box. It has a lid which isn't represented in the kit, the bolt alignment is visually off and there are no grab handles for the type I believe you were trying to represent:



Recessed lines for the lid and grab handle holes I believe should be standard with the kit.

The appliqué armour on the turret is significantly visually wrong in its shape and size:



I cannot find any reference photos that show the appliqué armour as per the kits representation. I believe this is an issue that should be addressed with the molds.

The turret bussel angle on the roof is visually wrong and mirrors the HL turret (from top to bottom- low, high, Resin):



Why cast a new turret with the same flaw?

The three piece transmission cover has wobbly bolt heads and is significantly oversized that if you sanded it down to the correct size you would lose some of the bolt head detail:



The cast numbers and letters are not crisp and I feel they detract from the cast texture and other detail on the kit. Unless they can be molded crisply then I don't feel they should form part of the kit:



The firefly barrel cleaning rods are missing, as are the fire extinguishers:



Ironically the above images show the actual rods missing but the mounting points are there for them. The resin kit has a tool where the rods should be which, I believe, although did happen it is not as common as the rods. For me, with any British armour, it should come with the standout Essex fire extinguishers that visually make it different from U.S armour. The same can be said for the cleaning rods. With the exception of the barrel and radio box that's one of the first things that distinguish it from all other Shermans.

The resin gun shield is visually oversized, it's the same dimensions as the HL one from what I can see. If you are casting a replacement why not make it more to scale? If you can't why cast one and instead use the HL part, like I did?



There are warping issues with the kit that hot water or a hairdryer can sort out. Equally resin is brittle and prone to air bubbles and I do believe reinforcing the screw points will reduce the risk of splitting when screwing the kit together. I also feel that some resin parts such as the gun shield, lower turret and gun mount are almost clones of the HL plastic ones. Why cast them when you already have less brittle, stronger and more flexible parts already there? I think we can safely assume that if you've bought this kit you've got the HL tank as well...

Reference the hull length. I'm glad you chose to cast that accurately. It'll be a challenge for me to alter the lower hull and it will ensure the tank looks right! However, due to the piece being cast there is a section that is so thin, even the slightest nudge will cause a crack/split. Unfortunately I can't build it up on the inside as it's currently a perfect fit with the HL lower. If I built up the outside I would have significant sanding, smoothing and re-detailing project on the go! I suppose it's one of the perils of using resin!



I will continue to post my build as and when I progress with it and I look forward to seeing it completed. Thank you for investing your time money and effort in making this kit. I'm genuinely very happy to be building a legend of the WW2 battlefield and that is solely down to you and your team...

P.S can you make a Comet in 1/16th please? That's one kit I'll throw all my money at!

[IronDuke]

Builds gone a bit slow as I wait for some nuts, bolts and washers to turn up. Until then there's not much I can do as I want to ensure the hull keeps its shape when I cut it and in order to do that it needs a little reinforcement. Having said that I have started work on the cleaning rods:



The rods are made out of 1.5mm brass tubing with brass wire .5mm wide inserted in the end, superglued in place and cut/sanded to size. Size wise they look to scale, I wish I had the skill sets to create the thread but I don't so it'll have to do.

[dgsselkirk]

Hi IronDuke,

In answer to your detail comments, we copied the HL turret because we wanted to make sure the components would work exactly the same. The 3 pc. transmission cover is taller and a bit oversize so that it would work better and easier to mount the upper hull complete. Radio box I agree, and if I did it again I would actually add the extension "blanket" box. Yes, both Vandra and I missed the fire extinguishers. I had it on my list and forgot to have them mold them. Cleaning rods were a design choice. The turret applique I have to look into further. I am asking Vandra for reference and looking through my files as I'm sure I had it. I may have used the book Son Of Sherman considered the bible of Sherman variants. ( I do have Mark's superb book as well) The casting marks I think better with than without. This was my first attempt at guiding Vandra through a kit and if I had to do it all over again I would go a bit slower and make sure not to miss some more obvious things. But I wanted to get it out there for everyone to have a go and especially as I wanted one for myself! I'll leave it now and let you get on with your build. But, before I forget, you can get a Comet kit no problem and since you say you would throw all your money at it shouldn't be a problem! LOL!

http://www.ludwigs-hobby-seite.de/Comet.html

[dgsselkirk]

Attila found it! Depended which factory did the work of course...

Firefly Book plate 243.jpg (99.45 KiB) Viewed 3027 times

[Woz]

A lot of the applique armour was done in the field. Usually they just cut up wrecked M4's and welded it on. You see plenty of Firefly's without any applique armour.

[IronDuke]

Attila found it! Depended which factory did the work of course...

Firefly book.jpg

Firefly Book plate 243.jpg

I think we need to agree to disagree... Not wanting to labour the point but this:



Doesn't look like these:



IMHO, what I should have done is cut the appliqué armour before gluing it in place...



I may do it, I may not. In hindsight I should have researched a little more before getting excited and gluing everything in place, never mind!

[IronDuke]

Work has been slow on the firefly due to ongoing work commitments and waiting for more bits to turn up from Germany... these are the penultimate parts, the Essex Fire Extinguishers from http://www.ludwigs-hobby-seite.de/



Just need to get some duckbill metal tracks and that's it!