D-Day Memorial

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Postby c.rainford73 » Sat Apr 06, 2019 2:32 am

I was surprised to read this article, having expected one was already constructed, but it appears a long overdue memorial is being constructed.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/0 ... andy-gets/

Glad these heroes are getting a special place :clap:
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Postby Son of a gun-ner » Sat Apr 06, 2019 9:22 am

Yes, that's truly disgraceful.
I'm saddened that a lot of wives and relatives of those that gave up their lives so that locals could protest and delay such an overdue memorial, aren't still around to witness this recognition for their loved ones sacrifice.
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Postby 43rdRecceReg » Sat Apr 06, 2019 10:12 am

Downright shocking that Britain, which provided the largest contingent of troops on D-Day beaches, is the only nation without a permanent memorial. I wonder, is this because of an unappreciative French nation, or an indifferent British government- the one that ousted Churchill's lot at the end of the War? :think: Maybe both :/ ...
It's only in recent years the Bomber command has been awarded a memorial, despite the fact that losses of 55,573 killed (10,000 Canadian) were the highest of any WW2 fighting force- with the sole exception of German submariners.
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Postby HERMAN BIX » Sat Apr 06, 2019 12:44 pm

Ive been there & Trod the blood soaked earth that has gifted me and mine the lives we take for granted today.
I can say:

If is was not for the war and all its sacrifice.................there is no bloody other reason to go there. :-<
The locals cash in on the fact that their area has been fought over for a thousand years.
The beach water is cold
the ambiance is resentful
the coastal area is under resourced & run down
And generally ,the weather is shit.

Yet they live under the historical blanket granted of those sons from foreign shores who gave their lives to give them the ungrateful right to protest a belated honor to those that to them mean nothing ????

How Dare They
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Postby c.rainford73 » Sat Apr 06, 2019 2:31 pm

Sadly these young men who made the ultimate sacrifice and now thier much older counterparts who are still with us in dwindling numbers have had two hard fought battles to claim a little piece of this ground in a foriegn land.
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Postby Black Knight » Sat Apr 06, 2019 5:16 pm

HERMAN BIX wrote:Ive been there & Trod the blood soaked earth that has gifted me and mine the lives we take for granted today.
I can say:

If is was not for the war and all its sacrifice.................there is no bloody other reason to go there. :-<
The locals cash in on the fact that their area has been fought over for a thousand years.
The beach water is cold
the ambiance is resentful
the coastal area is under resourced & run down
And generally ,the weather is shit.

Yet they live under the historical blanket granted of those sons from foreign shores who gave their lives to give them the ungrateful right to protest a belated honor to those that to them mean nothing ????

How Dare They




:clap: :clap: :clap: :thumbup:

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Postby FredtheFrench » Thu Jun 13, 2019 7:39 pm

End of press article:

Britain is the only nation involved in the allied invasion of France without a dedicated national memorial in Normandy.



No comment. I did not know. I am ashamed...



I am a person who like to give, to help, but in the life of all days, I can say than people see always for them. Now, people say " to me, to me, to me........ "It is sad, but it is the real life...

I am disgusted by my job, because people are never happy... It is a problem, with a lot of French people. For this reason, I like to speak (try to speak), with English people during 24 hours of Le Mans, because English people have a good spirit.
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Postby jarndice » Thu Jun 13, 2019 8:30 pm

I don't dispute the heartfelt resentment being aired on this Forum and further afield regarding the perceived antipathy of the citizens living along the Normandy coast toward those visitors constantly reminding them of the debt they owe to the many brave American, Canadian and British service personnel who fought their way onto the beaches and onward to Berlin,
BUT
If America, Canada or the United Kingdom had suffered five years of viscous occupation and then the French armed forces had come to rid your Country of that occupation and from then onwards for seventy five years and counting French visitors reminded you of YOUR obligation to the French how long would your goodwill last?
I have lived in mainland Europe as part of my Military service and enjoyed serving alongside Belgium, Dutch and German soldiers and I have visited and worked in these countries,
All of them liberated by allied military forces and there is no noticeable feelings of resentment toward those countries soldiers who until the end of the cold war acted as though they owned the place the only exception being after a drunken binge by the British after a sporting competition which the British team yet again lost.
The Norman French had to bare the initial assault and with it the dubious pleasure of all firsts that of being the seat of remembrance,
That is not a burden I would care to carry,
I have seen Dutch school children laying flowers on the graves of British soldiers in their village graveyard., No one asks them to do it,
It is because as one teacher told me the children think of the fallen soldiers as family,
Perhaps if the visitors to Normandy embraced those put upon people with a "There but for the Grace of God go I" attitude instead of an expectation of unpaid debt the attitude of the inhabitants might be quite different.

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Postby 43rdRecceReg » Thu Jun 13, 2019 10:37 pm

jarndice wrote:I don't dispute the heartfelt resentment being aired on this Forum and further afield regarding the perceived antipathy of the citizens living along the Normandy coast toward those visitors constantly reminding them of the debt they owe to the many brave American, Canadian and British service personnel who fought their way onto the beaches and onward to Berlin,
BUT
If America, Canada or the United Kingdom had suffered five years of viscous occupation and then the French armed forces had come to rid your Country of that occupation and from then onwards for seventy five years and counting French visitors reminded you of YOUR obligation to the French how long would your goodwill last?
I have lived in mainland Europe as part of my Military service and enjoyed serving alongside Belgium, Dutch and German soldiers and I have visited and worked in these countries,
All of them liberated by allied military forces and there is no noticeable feelings of resentment toward those countries soldiers who until the end of the cold war acted as though they owned the place the only exception being after a drunken binge by the British after a sporting competition which the British team yet again lost.
The Norman French had to bare the initial assault and with it the dubious pleasure of all firsts that of being the seat of remembrance,
That is not a burden I would care to carry,
I have seen Dutch school children laying flowers on the graves of British soldiers in their village graveyard., No one asks them to do it,
It is because as one teacher told me the children think of the fallen soldiers as family,
Perhaps if the visitors to Normandy embraced those put upon people with a "There but for the Grace of God go I" attitude instead of an expectation of unpaid debt the attitude of the inhabitants might be quite different.


But, Shaun, it wasn't just the Second World War that engendered this perceived indifference the French have to the sacrifices made on their behalf, by other nations- and especially by the British (think: De Gaulle and "Non!!"). What about the Great War, where almost 800,000 young Brits died to liberate the French, including two of my Grandfather's brothers? Where is the gratitude for that? While I was genuinely moved by Fred's words, I regret to say, sadly, that most of the French people I have met over the years don't share his views. :|
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Postby silversurfer1947 » Fri Jun 14, 2019 12:50 am

I have just come back from the D Day commemorations. As part of it, we visited a small out of the way military cemetery. As we were going in, there was a line of young school children just coming out. It turned out they they had been to the cemetery to place a dove of peace on every grave, British and German. There is a huge appreciation of the sacrifice made to free them from tyranny, even several generations removed.
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Postby 43rdRecceReg » Sat Jun 15, 2019 11:36 am

silversurfer1947 wrote:I have just come back from the D Day commemorations. As part of it, we visited a small out of the way military cemetery. As we were going in, there was a line of young school children just coming out. It turned out they they had been to the cemetery to place a dove of peace on every grave, British and German. There is a huge appreciation of the sacrifice made to free them from tyranny, even several generations removed.



Good. But what about this, Richard?- The Carrefour shopping chain produced this commemorative bag for D-Day:
Image
Notice anything unusual about it? Well, not only is the Union Jack missing from Gold beach, but the British flag has been replaced by the French tricolor on Sword beach >:< !!! !!!
The British made the largest contribution, in terms of troop numbers (73,000), on D-Day... with a tiny contingent of French (less than 200?).
https://www.dday-overlord.com/en/norman ... dy-landing
Is this because of the ancient animus between the British and the French, or Brexit, perhaps? For the nation that waved the white flag after a few weeks, despite having a larger army, and more tanks than the Germans, this is indeed a new and shameless low. While we live in an age where history is busily re-written to conform with PC narratives, this is an example of blatant bias and revisionism!!
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Postby c.rainford73 » Sat Jun 15, 2019 2:52 pm

That bag should be called "Edition Edited for Revisionists"

That is one sad representation of a collector's edition item! :thumbdown:
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Postby silversurfer1947 » Sat Jun 15, 2019 3:15 pm

As we drove around various parts of the Normady countryside, there was a huge proliferation of flags of Canada, Great Britan and the US, not just along the roads, but in private gardens. The people themselves remember.

At least the Leclerc got all the flags on their banner.
DSC00183.JPG
DSC00183.JPG (41.38 KiB) Viewed 907 times


One fact which tends to get overlooked when air force and navy are taken into account, is that 12 Allied Nations took part. If one looks on it from the French point of view, no French actually took part in D Day. They were involved in J Jour!

The Bayeux War Cemetery and Memorial
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It is the resting place of over 4,100 Commonwealth servicemen, plus over 500 of other nations.
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The memorial is to more than 1,800 servicemen who lost their lives in the Normandy campaign who have no known grave.

There are 18 Commonwealth War Cemeteries in Normandy containing over 22,000 grave. In addition to these,there are many more in churchyards and village cemeteries throughtout the region.

It was a very moving experience. After leaving Bayeux we travelled to a smaller cemetery a wreath was laid on behalf of the British contingent. These cemeteries always have a profound effect on me. There was a previous wreath from 7th battalion Parachute Regiment dedicated to a Short Stirling shot down by flak on June 6. It was on a parachute drop. I found the headstones. There were the 4 aircrew and some 20 others for those of the paratroopers. The saddest part was reading the ages of them - 19,19,20,19 and so it went on.
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Postby c.rainford73 » Sat Jun 15, 2019 4:40 pm

Here's a story about the bag in question....

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/11404 ... ings-video
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Postby Black Knight » Sat Jun 15, 2019 5:48 pm

I was out ther last week, mainly to commemorate the D Day raid on Port en Bessen by 47 Commando Royal Marines (Operation Pluto - fuel line from UK to Normandy to support the liberation) . We ended the week with a parade through the town and I have to say, the crowds were quite a surprise! I can happily say the Port en Bessen still loves and welcomes the Royal Marine Commandos :P !!! :clap: :clap:

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Postby HERMAN BIX » Sat Jun 15, 2019 10:58 pm

I will say after spending 5 weeks touring France that in many cases the basic poor behaviour and blatant rudeness shown by English folk towards the locals in restaurants, motels and shops could go a long way to driving in the wedge.
Ducking over for a weekend of boozing & carrying on like a post match party in small towns is not going to sit well.( Carentan, car club weekend, disgraceful)
Regardless of your language, basic courtesy’s still mean a lot.
Once I identified myself as a Kiwi, not a Brit or an American, the mood instantly became lighter and the attitude changed. That plus we were polite, non demanding and above all- relatively quiet.

We all need to keep in mind today that the generation involved in this conflict were raised with different behaviour expectations, and were not tainted by years of modern mud slinging, social media, and general sense of self-entitlement that so many are today.

I kept in mind it wasn’t the men that fought on their soil that created the resentment, but those largely ignorant and ungrateful that have come since .

The living memories of those that were there are fading fast, we will soon only be left with memorials and film footage.
Let’s do our collective best to live the lives gifted to us by those faces on the documentary footage eh.?
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Postby 43rdRecceReg » Sun Jun 16, 2019 1:09 am

HERMAN BIX wrote:I will say after spending 5 weeks touring France that in many cases the basic poor behaviour and blatant rudeness shown by English folk towards the locals in restaurants, motels and shops could go a long way to driving in the wedge.
Ducking over for a weekend of boozing & carrying on like a post match party in small towns is not going to sit well.( Carentan, car club weekend, disgraceful)
Regardless of your language, basic courtesy’s still mean a lot.
Once I identified myself as a Kiwi, not a Brit or an American, the mood instantly became lighter and the attitude changed. That plus we were polite, non demanding and above all- relatively quiet.

We all need to keep in mind today that the generation involved in this conflict were raised with different behaviour expectations, and were not tainted by years of modern mud slinging, social media, and general sense of self-entitlement that so many are today.

I kept in mind it wasn’t the men that fought on their soil that created the resentment, but those largely ignorant and ungrateful that have come since .

The living memories of those that were there are fading fast, we will soon only be left with memorials and film footage.
Let’s do our collective best to live the lives gifted to us by those faces on the documentary footage eh.?


My Dad's generation had values that would be woefully out of place in this Global Marketplace, where greed is good, and the culture of the self reigns supreme. They were taught to be selfless, and I (as a postwar Boomer) also had it drummed into me: "I want- never gets"! They were taught to be modest about their achievements, never to complain, and to think about others before themselves. What a contrast with the modern world populated by 'snowflakes', and those immersed in 'identity politics'. :| Let's just ensure that all those lives lost were not in vain.

One thing that puzzles me, HB, is how many ethnic French people living in Canada still think of themselves as French, even after 10 generations, just like the Irish often remain Irish in Boston; and yet Indigenous Brits consider themselves to be 'Kiwi'. 'Aussie', or 'Canadian', within- in many instances, the space of a generation or two. :think: Very odd. :think:
I tend to think of Australians as Aboriginals, and New Zealanders as Maoris. The others are mostly (White) European settlers. I note that in the US, there's a fashion amongst so-called 'A-listers' to claim some 'First Nation' ancestry these days (as if to justify their presence in the Americas), even when there's no actual evidence for it. Thirty years ago (according to the US census) a significant number of people were clamouring to claim British (English, Welsh, Scottish- and Irish, to some extent) ancestry. These days, though, many of the same folk now describe themselves as 'American'. What could have happened to change their minds?
:) It's just a bit of whimsy, and an observation.
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Postby FredtheFrench » Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:05 pm

In my first message, I was talking about the fact that the French were not happy for the Ver sur Mer memorial.
On the other hand, it is clear that with respect to D Day, the French and more particularly the Normands, are happy to commemorate this historic event.
As SilverSurfer1947 explained, shops, towns and villages are all decked out in small flags of allied colors and there is still a lot of people at these commemorations.
In the TV news and in the newspapers, there are many articles on the French thanking the Americans, the British and the Canadians.
For the history of the Carrefour bag, I have a hard time believing (unfortunately) that it is a mistake. If there is one, she is terribly awkward.
But even so, you must know that there is no anti-British resentment. It is not because Carrefour has brought out this bag, without the English troops, that the French population has something against you, or even that they have forgotten the sacrifices of your fathers and grandfathers? This is not true and you should not mix everything.
Never, I say never, Normandy and the French will forget this sacrifice (even if it is true that there are always people who do not care). It is for this reason that I urge my 8 year old son to come with me, just to explain to him what happened and why so many men lost their lives during this war.
I do not try to justify anything, but do not think that the French have forgotten the sacrifice of all these young men. Both British, Canadian and American.
The problem is that in the minds of people, the D day= the Americans.
Know that for some years now that the authorities in Normandy have realized and they want to change this way of thinking and work to precisely put forward the sacrifice of the British and Canadians. Unfortunately, it will still take a long time.
That 's the reason why my DD sherman was made in the British colors, because the collective still thinks of the DD that sank in Omaha, but almost never to those who have almost all arrived on the British beaches.
Unfortunately, in the documentary that was done with my model, the "off voice" says that it 's about a Sherman DD having landed on Omaha, whereas I had made it clear that it was a tank having landed at Sword !!!
These are the kinds of small mistakes that deceive people.

FredtheFrench, a man who like to speak with English people and recently during the 24 hours of Le Mans!!! :{

The entire message has been writing with google translate, French to English, because too hard for me to try writing directly in English. Excuse me for that...
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Postby Ad Lav » Mon Jun 17, 2019 9:11 pm

Fred, no apology needed. Your English is better than most here ;)

Hopefully a fitting memorial in the uk will be built soon.
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