Taigen Panzer IV
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If your question is electronics related please post it in one of the relevant boards here: viewforum.php?f=31
If your question is electronics related please post it in one of the relevant boards here: viewforum.php?f=31
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Herr Dr. Professor
- Lieutenant
- Posts: 3596
- Joined: Mon Apr 22, 2019 10:48 pm
- Location: Southern Wisconsin USA
Re: Taigen Panzer IV
"...so if he can be assed to do it, the info will be right!" That's an Interesting way to put it, Herman.
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HERMAN BIX
- Brigadier
- Posts: 10302
- Joined: Sun Jan 12, 2014 12:15 am
- Location: Gold Coast,Australia
Re: Taigen Panzer IV
He’s not a real forum person or I would get him to post directly. He also is time poor on hobby stuff lately, so any time he has spare is quite precious.Herr Dr. Professor wrote:"...so if he can be assed to do it, the info will be right!" That's an Interesting way to put it, Herman.
You will know him as the other Other Von Rundstedt from HH ,
All I can do is ask him
HL JAGDPANTHER,HL TIGER 1,HL PzIII MUNITIONSCHLEPPER, HL KT OCTOPUS,HL PANTHER ZU-FUSS,HL STuG III,HL T34/85 BEDSPRING,
HL PZIV MALTA,MATORRO JAGDTIGER,HL F05 TIGER,TAMIYA KT,HL PANTHERDOZER,HL EARLY PANTHER G,TAIGEN/RAMINATOR T34/76,
HL AN-BRI-RAM SU-85
HL PZIV MALTA,MATORRO JAGDTIGER,HL F05 TIGER,TAMIYA KT,HL PANTHERDOZER,HL EARLY PANTHER G,TAIGEN/RAMINATOR T34/76,
HL AN-BRI-RAM SU-85
Re: Taigen Panzer IV
Hi all,
After reading through this thread and coming to Herman's comment I thought I would jump on and help clarify a few things regarding the Panzer IV.
I don't claim to know everything on the PzIV but I do follow current research closely and much has been learned over the last few years.
When wanting to build a reasonably accurate Panzer IV there is a lot to consider. Truth be told though when it comes to the workhorse of the German armed forces you actually have more creative freedom then you might think.
Here's why...
Between Ausf. F production and mid Ausf. H three factories were involved with production of the Panzer IV. Krupp, Vomag and Nibelungen. In December of 43 Krupp was switched to production of the Stug IV and in the spring of 44 Vomag were moved into building Jagdpanzer IV's. This left Nibelungen solely responsible for Panzer IV production for the final two versions of the Ausf. J.
These three factories each had there own ''flavour'' when assembling the tanks which resulted in a number of individual features. The Nibelungen factory actually released all there tanks between Ausf. G production and Ausf. H with their tracks fitted backwards. This proves to be a key factory identifier. Other examples include the placement of tools and the direction in which the spade faces. This combined with inconsistent availability of parts and the ongoing rebuilding programme of damaged Panzer's resulted in some real 'mutants' seeing action in the second half of the war.
Late Ausf. G production, (April, May and June 1943) seen the introduction of three major changes to the Panzer IV. The first was the improvement of the main gun from L43 to L48. Secondly, welded additional armor was to be changed to bolted for the superstructure and the hull. The transition times for this changed quite a bit between the three factories though and this resulted in a many tanks featuring bolted superstructure with welded hull fronts. The most visibly obvious change was the addition of hull and turret side skirts. The order was issued for these to be fitted to all late G production tanks in the factories in April 1943. Photographic evidence from late April though show tanks leaving the Nibelungen factory with and without the skirts though. This was probably due to shortages of parts. Existing Panzer IV's already in service were only fitted with turret skirts. This would have been happening in the weeks leading up to the Kursk offensive.
Just to add to this, Ausf. H production was to begin in May of 43. Of the three factories though it was only Vomag that was ready to shift over at that time. It would be mid to late June before Nibelungen and finally Krupp were able to. This resulted in a short period of time when contract and designation were overlapping. This can lead to confusion and make identification of specific vehicles from this time difficult.
Long story short, If Simon wants to add side skirts to his Heng Long PzIV F2, he can absolutely do that and you don't need to replace the split hatch of the cupola for a single piece one. Split hatch cupola's were seen on many Ausf. H's and I have even seen one on an early Ausf. J.
I have also seen an Ausf. E and a few F1's with turret skirts fitted so at the end of the day you can't really go wrong. With what I have mentioned above you can ''never say never'' when it comes to the panzer IV.
Enjoy your build Simon, let me know if I can help with anything.
Cheers,
Brendon.
After reading through this thread and coming to Herman's comment I thought I would jump on and help clarify a few things regarding the Panzer IV.
I don't claim to know everything on the PzIV but I do follow current research closely and much has been learned over the last few years.
When wanting to build a reasonably accurate Panzer IV there is a lot to consider. Truth be told though when it comes to the workhorse of the German armed forces you actually have more creative freedom then you might think.
Here's why...
Between Ausf. F production and mid Ausf. H three factories were involved with production of the Panzer IV. Krupp, Vomag and Nibelungen. In December of 43 Krupp was switched to production of the Stug IV and in the spring of 44 Vomag were moved into building Jagdpanzer IV's. This left Nibelungen solely responsible for Panzer IV production for the final two versions of the Ausf. J.
These three factories each had there own ''flavour'' when assembling the tanks which resulted in a number of individual features. The Nibelungen factory actually released all there tanks between Ausf. G production and Ausf. H with their tracks fitted backwards. This proves to be a key factory identifier. Other examples include the placement of tools and the direction in which the spade faces. This combined with inconsistent availability of parts and the ongoing rebuilding programme of damaged Panzer's resulted in some real 'mutants' seeing action in the second half of the war.
Late Ausf. G production, (April, May and June 1943) seen the introduction of three major changes to the Panzer IV. The first was the improvement of the main gun from L43 to L48. Secondly, welded additional armor was to be changed to bolted for the superstructure and the hull. The transition times for this changed quite a bit between the three factories though and this resulted in a many tanks featuring bolted superstructure with welded hull fronts. The most visibly obvious change was the addition of hull and turret side skirts. The order was issued for these to be fitted to all late G production tanks in the factories in April 1943. Photographic evidence from late April though show tanks leaving the Nibelungen factory with and without the skirts though. This was probably due to shortages of parts. Existing Panzer IV's already in service were only fitted with turret skirts. This would have been happening in the weeks leading up to the Kursk offensive.
Just to add to this, Ausf. H production was to begin in May of 43. Of the three factories though it was only Vomag that was ready to shift over at that time. It would be mid to late June before Nibelungen and finally Krupp were able to. This resulted in a short period of time when contract and designation were overlapping. This can lead to confusion and make identification of specific vehicles from this time difficult.
Long story short, If Simon wants to add side skirts to his Heng Long PzIV F2, he can absolutely do that and you don't need to replace the split hatch of the cupola for a single piece one. Split hatch cupola's were seen on many Ausf. H's and I have even seen one on an early Ausf. J.
I have also seen an Ausf. E and a few F1's with turret skirts fitted so at the end of the day you can't really go wrong. With what I have mentioned above you can ''never say never'' when it comes to the panzer IV.
Enjoy your build Simon, let me know if I can help with anything.
Cheers,
Brendon.
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SimonCornes
- Lance Corporal
- Posts: 189
- Joined: Wed Jan 27, 2021 12:41 pm
- Location: Stoke-on-Trent
Re: Taigen Panzer IV
Thanks Brendon, only just seen your reply! I may well have to message you at some point!!
I've come to the conclusion that the easiest thing to do is to convert to a G by removing the turret side vision ports and the one on the right hand side front of the turret and that's basically it. I also have a set of PIV zimmerit so I could slap that on 'as appropriate' and then not have to worry about a fill-sand-fill-sand job on the turret sides where the ports were!
Cheers
Simon
I've come to the conclusion that the easiest thing to do is to convert to a G by removing the turret side vision ports and the one on the right hand side front of the turret and that's basically it. I also have a set of PIV zimmerit so I could slap that on 'as appropriate' and then not have to worry about a fill-sand-fill-sand job on the turret sides where the ports were!
Cheers
Simon
