Tamiya Display models - fitting gearbox

If you have a tank query and you can't find the answer anywhere else, post here. (TIP - Check for answers in FAQ, use the 'search' facility or even check this board before posting here).

Postby Son of a gun-ner » Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:24 am

After watching the video, it looks like you get the other parts you need with the tank kit.
But you don't get parts "gearbox B" and "gearbox D" or long screws which hold the motors in place. You will need these parts to complete the boxes.
Image

Rad, I don't understand the job of the black grease guard how you described it, apart from stopping the grease flying about, surely it's not essential?
User avatar
Son of a gun-ner
TOTM Admin
 
Posts: 2181
Joined: Sun May 07, 2017 8:49 pm
Location: Surrey UK

Postby 43rdRecceReg » Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:38 am

Son of a gun-ner wrote:After watching the video, it looks like you get the other parts you need with the tank kit.
But you don't get parts "gearbox B" and "gearbox D" or long screws which hold the motors in place. You will need these parts to complete the boxes.

Rad, I don't understand the job of the black grease guard how you described it, apart from stopping the grease flying about, surely it's not essential?


They're also there, Mick, to prevent the gears from chewing and digesting all those ultra-expensive bits of wire emanating from the Turret, and DMD units. Tucking/securing the wires neatly doesn't always work.. :|
User avatar
43rdRecceReg
Lieutenant
 
Posts: 3694
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2015 11:38 am
Location: North West Highlands, Scotland

Postby Rad_Schuhart » Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:43 am

Son of a gun-ner wrote:After watching the video, it looks like you get the other parts you need with the tank kit.
But you don't get parts "gearbox B" and "gearbox D" or long screws which hold the motors in place. You will need these parts to complete the boxes.


Rad, I don't understand the job of the black grease guard how you described it, apart from stopping the grease flying about, surely it's not essential?

Really, those plastic covers are esential. If you remove them, the entire gearbox will dismount once running, it keeps the shafts in place.
I discovered it when dismounting my gearboxes for doing the steel bushing mod (very importand mod to do)
User avatar
Rad_Schuhart
Warrant Officer 2nd Class
 
Posts: 1260
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2016 10:22 am
Location: Spanish living in Graz, Austria. Heart in UK.

Postby Rad_Schuhart » Mon Feb 11, 2019 11:52 am

Ok, ignore the red arrows.

47a80ee0.jpg


Where the big yellow arrows, the shafts will jump away.
And I think the other shafts slides through.

So thats why the plastic guards are so crucial in those gearboxes.
User avatar
Rad_Schuhart
Warrant Officer 2nd Class
 
Posts: 1260
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2016 10:22 am
Location: Spanish living in Graz, Austria. Heart in UK.

Postby 43rdRecceReg » Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:24 pm

For reference purposes, lads, here's a LH Tamiya gearbox posing beside the gearbox casing/frame supplied with the Jagdpanther display kit. The frames are, in fact, identical dimensionally, and all the holes line up.
Image
Here's the Tamiya unit with the plastic retaining cover removed. You'll see that some of the gear shafts sit in slots, and are retained (as Rad has observer correctly) by the plastic covers. :|
Image
The gear kit under discussion would fit into the Display model case/frame with no issues. Desiderata would be: plastic retaining covers, and the correct output shafts. That should be about it.. :D, as fas as I can tell
Last edited by 43rdRecceReg on Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
43rdRecceReg
Lieutenant
 
Posts: 3694
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2015 11:38 am
Location: North West Highlands, Scotland

Postby Son of a gun-ner » Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:31 pm

Ah, I did wonder why these boxes didn't have any braces near the top.
If the black plastic bits were just for grease and keeping wires out, I'd say just fit a home made shield.

So, unless Mr Smaily can fabricate top braces like cheap gearboxes have, he will need these covers, as well as gearbox parts B and D.

And one will still need to get motors with correct pinions to drive the boxes.

I have found complete boxes in Germany for €55 each, but they don't appear to sell out of Germany internationally, but they may do to a country like Slovakia.

Mr Smaily, if you decide to buy the complete gearboxes, I think we can come to some sort of arrangement where I purchase your empty boxes with shafts that you already have, it will help offset the cost a little. If you're interested, send me a PM.
User avatar
Son of a gun-ner
TOTM Admin
 
Posts: 2181
Joined: Sun May 07, 2017 8:49 pm
Location: Surrey UK

Postby 43rdRecceReg » Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:35 pm

...and the lift out very easily, just so:
Image

I have to say, the parts look and feel as if they're on a higher engineering plane from those made by Taigen/HL and co...
BUT, they cost an arm and a leg (and some skin, if you get your fingertip wedged in the gears. 8O ). It's almost £100 per box these days.
User avatar
43rdRecceReg
Lieutenant
 
Posts: 3694
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2015 11:38 am
Location: North West Highlands, Scotland

Postby Rad_Schuhart » Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:42 pm

And worst part of all, remember the gearboxes (except the pershing) are wrong designed and they will have premature wear!

Info? Here: http://www.customrcmodels.com/files/RCP ... PGRADE.pdf

EDIT: Yep, also the other shafts slide through the sides... The plastic parts are a must.
User avatar
Rad_Schuhart
Warrant Officer 2nd Class
 
Posts: 1260
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2016 10:22 am
Location: Spanish living in Graz, Austria. Heart in UK.

Postby Son of a gun-ner » Mon Feb 11, 2019 12:48 pm

Rad_Schuhart wrote:And worst part of all, remember the gearboxes (except the pershing) are wrong designed and they will have premature wear!

Info? Here: http://www.customrcmodels.com/files/RCP ... PGRADE.pdf

EDIT: Yep, also the other shafts slide through the sides... The plastic parts are a must.

What a rubbish design by Tamiya with those gears.
User avatar
Son of a gun-ner
TOTM Admin
 
Posts: 2181
Joined: Sun May 07, 2017 8:49 pm
Location: Surrey UK

Postby 43rdRecceReg » Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:46 pm

It would be interesting to know from members, what their experience has been of box failures due to the issue outlined by Rad. Over the years I've read of Tamiyas providing last-lasting reliability, even under stressful 'battle conditions'. That's how they build their reputation initially, and why they command Rolls-Royce prices (in model terms ;) Perhaps our Tamiyanistas were lucky, or maybe they installed the enhanced bushing being sold online.
Even in unadapted spec., I wonder how long say a Tamiya Tiger one's transmission would last when set against a Taigen Tiger with 'premium' gearboxes. :think: :D
Well, I guess we'll never know. But I envisage the same sort of test popularly used in the 'Duracell' battery adverts.... ;)
In Principle, I think it's a good design idea to incorporate a gearbox shield (proctecting the wiring etc..) :)

edited to remove
repeated 'they were'.. :/
Last edited by 43rdRecceReg on Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:11 pm, edited 3 times in total.
User avatar
43rdRecceReg
Lieutenant
 
Posts: 3694
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2015 11:38 am
Location: North West Highlands, Scotland

Postby Son of a gun-ner » Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:54 pm

Hold on. . . .

Somethings coming through. . . .

I think my psychic abilities that would stump James Randi tell me that Mr Smaily may be chasing complete boxes. . . .
User avatar
Son of a gun-ner
TOTM Admin
 
Posts: 2181
Joined: Sun May 07, 2017 8:49 pm
Location: Surrey UK

Postby Rad_Schuhart » Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:04 pm

43rdRecceReg wrote:It would be interesting to know from members, what their experience has been of box failures has been due to the issue outlined by Rad. Over the years I've read of Tamiyas providing last-lasting reliability, even under stressful 'battle conditions'. That's how they build their reputation initially, and why the cost Rolls-Royce prices (in model terms ;) Perhaps our Tamiyanistas they were lucky, or maybe they installed the enhanced bushing being sold online.
Even in unadapted spec., I wonder how long say a Tamiya Tiger one's transmission would last when set against a Taigen Tiger with 'premium' gearboxes. :think: :D
Well, I guess we'll never know. But I envisage the same sort of test popularly used in the 'Duracell' battery adverts.... ;)
In Principle, I think it's a good design idea to incorporate a gearbox shield (proctecting the wiring etc..) :)



Well, definitelly you wont heard a lot of voices complaining, but instead you will heard people saying:
"I run my tank since the origin of times and never ever had any problem"
"All my tanks are fine"
"You asembled it wrong, moron"
"Tamiya is designed by Zeus, handcrafted in the heaven`s forgue by Mars with Hefastus hammer, how you dare, you miserable worm, to talk bad about Tamiya"
And infinite variants like that.

The truth is I did not write that text that I posted above, but Daryl Turner. I guess he is long known here, but for those who dont know him, he is a hardcore tanker that has never missed an event in Danvile, and did upgrades for our tanks for about 20 years non stop, so basically he has seen and fixed everything. Also there are other people that fix and offer that bushing service.

He told me he has seen brand new tamiya gearboxes failing in just one day. I know that sounds extreme, but it wont be the first case, nor the second that I heard too.

My experience is, my oldest tank was showing wear in that exact point. The rest of the gears were fine, but that part was wearing quite fast. I dont rc battle and drive with care, usually at crawling speeds, and I do never jackrabbit back and forwards.

Meanwhile I dont see any wear in some taigen gearboxes I have, but they are noisy.

Just my experience.
User avatar
Rad_Schuhart
Warrant Officer 2nd Class
 
Posts: 1260
Joined: Tue Jan 19, 2016 10:22 am
Location: Spanish living in Graz, Austria. Heart in UK.

Postby 43rdRecceReg » Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:26 pm

Just curious, Rad. I have the greatest respect for your contributions here, and the valid points you make. :thumbup: In fact, it's probably because of you (and Adam) that I'll put an Elmod unit in my Tamiya Pz IV.!!
Should it be a disaster, I can then always use you as a scapegoat! (Sündenbock: : :thumbup:). It will be all your fault :haha:
I have to confess that my Tamiyas don't get much in the way of a regular workout (Jane Fonda for 1/16), so I'm not really in a position to comment on the longevity, or otherwise, of Tamiya units. Mine don't battle either. BUT, they do fit together beautifully. :thumbup: not many people would deny that. Anyone who's had a nervous breakdown working on Asiatam products, will know how sublime it is, in comparison to assemble a Tamiya.
That said, they are behind the times, rarely offer 360deg turrets, working lights and cost way too much...
Last edited by 43rdRecceReg on Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
43rdRecceReg
Lieutenant
 
Posts: 3694
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2015 11:38 am
Location: North West Highlands, Scotland

Postby Smaily » Mon Feb 11, 2019 2:39 pm

Now here we have some interesting information. This ends up like serious discussion (which I pretty much like :thumbup: :thumbup: )

So now I have option to find out where to get original gearboxes (complete right and left best with motors), somewhere where those will not cost a small fortune (or price of another Taigen tank). I will have some parts as replacements in case of need.

Or try to modify cheaper variants of gearbox to fit hull (to get problems with sprocket wheel and shafts - which in the other hand in case I will buy metal tracks in future for example from Taigen, I will be facing anyway). Drill down some mounting plate for other type of gearbox.

Or third option will be to get my hands on Tiger I (or King Tiger :-O ) full option (cost around 550€ on axels) and sell electronic part (but now what could be price of that?). Is there anyone who may be interested?


Well, my original plan was to invest 350€ as maximum (except radio gear, servos, OP TCB, some PE clamps/clasps and painting + weathering, as all those things I already have). And display model of JP (now in axels shop in nice price) looks that it could fit that budget.
I know, that this budget is pretty much low (even for nice Taigen tank), but still I may order display kit, see if there is possibility to install cheap gearboxes, if not, order Tamiyas and live with that :) Becasue as we know, Taigen and HL struggles with details (I have HL Pz. III and Panther G, so I expect Tamiya to be different level of details and accuracy). So at the end with all aftermarket details You are on the price of Tamiya.


Again, thanks all, I am still open to any suggestions or ideas in this case, as it seems that more people may have different experience.

Now we are sure, that Tamiya tracks will not fit HL or Taigen metal drive wheels?

Smaily
Private
 
Posts: 52
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 12:49 pm

Postby 43rdRecceReg » Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:08 pm

The option I had in mind, is the one whereby the innards (gears kit + plastic retainer) are bought from Tamiya.de, or the AAF, and then fitted to the frames/casings supplied with the kit. The supplied empty frames are a perfect fit for the Jagdpanther, as well as the sprockets and tracks. Notwithstanding actual availability, this would appear to be the cheapest and most practical solution.
It might be worthwhile, as an alternative, looking round on Ebay for a bargain used Tamiya, with salvageable parts. They may be as rare as rocking horse s**t, but they do crop up. :thumbup:
..now and then. The gears and frames/box casings/ are pretty much the same from several models in the Tamiya stable (not the Leo, though). That is, from the Sherman through to the Panzer IV, so far as I can tell. I'm guessing that the position of the standoff holes, and the size of designated standoffs, make for the only real differences. In any event, you only need the gear sets to fit into the gear frames that came with the kit.
You can then sell the remaining parts on, or adapt them in a future project. Many people do, I think.
User avatar
43rdRecceReg
Lieutenant
 
Posts: 3694
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2015 11:38 am
Location: North West Highlands, Scotland

Postby Smaily » Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:30 pm

Now I have found on axels shop gearboxes for King Tiger for reasonable price, anyone knows if I will be able to use that one in combination with the one from static kit?? All in all both look pretty same...

https://www.axels-modellbau-shop.de/kat ... 148e262dbc

Smaily
Private
 
Posts: 52
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 12:49 pm

Postby Son of a gun-ner » Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:36 pm

It does appear to look like the same style box.
User avatar
Son of a gun-ner
TOTM Admin
 
Posts: 2181
Joined: Sun May 07, 2017 8:49 pm
Location: Surrey UK

Postby 43rdRecceReg » Mon Feb 11, 2019 6:46 pm

I could check my KT and compare it with the Panther, but I think it's a strong bet that the units are basically the same, with the possible exception of the position (and number) of screw holes in the bottom plate, for the metal stand-offs. The position of the output shaft to a sprocket varies in height above the hull floor, from model to model. Tamiya get around this by using metal standoffs of differing lengths/heights.
It wouldn't make sense to manufacture gearboxes that are unique to individual models, I'd guess. All they have to do is tweak one core model to suit. :think:

The Box in the picture was originally from a Sherman (long story), and intended for my Pz IV; but all the casing details are identical with those of the Jagdpanther Display model frame. They're also identical with the frame fitted to the Panzer IV, with the sole difference that the stand-offs fitted to the Pz IV require the fixing screws to pass through the stand-off and into the bottom plate of the gearbox. While the stand-offs themselves are glued to the hull floor. This means that the plate screw hole is a smaller diameter than the one in the Sherman box. Put another way, in some models, the stand-offs are fixed to the hull floor (PzIV), in others they're screwed into the bottom plate of the gearbox, with a retaining screw passing through the hull floor into them. Hope this all makes sense. :crazy:
The only other significant difference will be in the output shaft length, which varies by the model. :|
User avatar
43rdRecceReg
Lieutenant
 
Posts: 3694
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2015 11:38 am
Location: North West Highlands, Scotland

Postby Smaily » Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:05 pm

If You could try to have a look at both, to confirm if gearboxes for KT and JP are same, it will help me a lot to make a decision how to proceed.

Lenght of driveshaft should be no problem, as I will get one within display model, so just replace it. Or replace whole "case" of KT gearbox from one within kit. That should work right?

Smaily
Private
 
Posts: 52
Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2016 12:49 pm

Postby 43rdRecceReg » Mon Feb 11, 2019 7:24 pm

Smaily wrote:If You could try to have a look at both, to confirm if gearboxes for KT and JP are same, it will help me a lot to make a decision how to proceed.

Lenght of driveshaft should be no problem, as I will get one within display model, so just replace it. Or replace whole "case" of KT gearbox from one within kit. That should work right?


Yes. The difference in product number may be due solely to the length of the output shaft length. I'll check the KT out tomorrow (lots of chores to catch up tonight). I know for a fact, however, that apart from the size of the stand-off retaining screws in each case, the Pz IV and Jagdpanther have virtually identical boxes.
User avatar
43rdRecceReg
Lieutenant
 
Posts: 3694
Joined: Fri Jul 31, 2015 11:38 am
Location: North West Highlands, Scotland

PreviousNext

Return to General Questions

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests