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Welsh Dragon Models

Anyone have WW2 British helmet information?

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Postby Son of a gun-ner » Mon Feb 12, 2018 7:20 pm

As in, dimensions or blue prints please.

I wish I'd taken measurements the last time had a British helmet in my hands, but it was so long ago before I got into 16th RC tanks.

Mick.
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Postby 43rdRecceReg » Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:32 pm

It''s exactly 12 inches front to back, and 11.25 inches side to side. Depthwise, it's around 3.75 inches, Mick. I have one, If you'd like photos. I also have a 1943 Pattern German helmet as well. In fact they both featured somewhere in one of my older threads, but I forget which.
Interestingly, the German helmet has a tastefully made pale leather lining, compared rubber and crap leather interior of the Brit bonce protector... Again, if you want pics for comparison's sake, I'll be happy to post them..along with some rulers/ tape measures for reference. :thumbup: :wave:
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Postby 43rdRecceReg » Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:22 am

..and here they are:
Britsh WW2 Steel Helmet 1942.jpeg
British WW2 Steel Helmet- 1942

It has seen better times, but haven't we all? :lolno: You can still see flakes of camo. paint on this one.
German WW2 Steel Helmet 1943 pattern.jpeg
German WW2 Steel Helmet- 1943 pattern Wehrmacht
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Postby 43rdRecceReg » Tue Feb 13, 2018 1:32 am

and this is what they had for liners. Note the fine leather in the German Stahlhelm!. The '43 pattern often had no unit decals, and dispensed with the protective lip around the helmets edges... If you have (a genuine) one, they can be worth quite a bit of money 8O
British WW2 Steel helmet- liner.jpeg
British WW2 Steel helmet- liner

The strap has been replaced on this one at some point; but it's still all original. I've had this, and it's German counterpart for almost 40 years... and..I used to use them for gardening and building work :haha: (really!) Why did my neighbours think I was weird :crazy: ?
German WW2 Steel helmet- liner.jpeg
German WW2 Stahlhelm..liner


Here's the measure of the German model from stem to stern. It's 11.5 inches. Just .5 in less than the British bone dome..
German WW2 Steel helmet- size.jpeg
German WW2 steel helmet- size


Hope this all helps with your query, Mick. :thumbup:
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Postby Son of a gun-ner » Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:28 am

WOW thank you so very much Mr 43rd :thumbup:

LOL at you wearing them around the garden etc.

Yes, I've heard that the interior of the German helmet was superior.

As for your English one, I'm guessing that is a MK2 by its date/year 1942. Apparently it was a slightly different size to the WW1 MK1 brodie.
The one you've shown is definitely the right shape that I'm after info on.

Please, can I be extra cheeky and ask for two more pictures of the British helmet upside down with the ruler showing length and width :{
Also, please can I have the brim height to where it meets the bowl.
These pictures/measurements will help me say I told you so to someone, and will help anyone wanting to print scale British helmets ;)

Again, thank you so much.

Mick.
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Postby HERMAN BIX » Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:59 am

One of my own "I wish I never did that" moments was that I auctioned a British Helmet with crisp provenience markings that identified it as being a Saville Row version.
It had a coat of matt black paint on it,but it was in overall magnificent condition and its leather was mint & supple.
Everything matched according to the experts.

Took me years to figure out I had made a big mistake :'(
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Postby Son of a gun-ner » Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:04 pm

HERMAN BIX wrote:One of my own "I wish I never did that" moments was that I auctioned a British Helmet with crisp provenience markings that identified it as being a Saville Row version.
It had a coat of matt black paint on it,but it was in overall magnificent condition and its leather was mint & supple.
Everything matched according to the experts.

Took me years to figure out I had made a big mistake :'(

You're not alone Mr Bix, if it'll make you feel better, I sold a slot car for a couple of hundred before I knew it's true worth, I found out later I was conned, and it turned out to be worth 10 times that.
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Postby HERMAN BIX » Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:20 pm

I made plenty back over time though.

My earliest memories of a German helmet was that a friend of my Dad's had one hung in his porch in NZ that had a plant growing in it !!
He was a Welshman, Eddie Crymble I believe his name was, copped a Mauser round through the jaw dropping in during Operation Market Garden.(that is an assumption based on his description of his deployment at the time)
Got a great set of teeth from his captors so he said(I would hate to think where from ) during his rehab in captivity.

I really think it was these accounts, and this visual exposure that got me into all things 'War' at a young age..............
I went on to be a very well appointed collector of Russian firearms, but never lost the affinity for the weapons & hardware of the bad-guys.
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Postby Son of a gun-ner » Tue Feb 13, 2018 12:34 pm

Wow, that's quite a story. And yes, I can guess where the teeth may have come from sadly.

I remember seeing something WAY back about someone using German helmets as hanging baskets for plants lol.

I too have made up for my "loss" but it still leaves a bad taste in ones mouth about how could I have been so stupid :{

Probably lucky I never had gun collection, I would have probably been tempted to shoot someone deserving of it :{
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Postby 43rdRecceReg » Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:39 pm

Righty ho, chaps. Here we have the Brodie. When I gave it a wee clean, the production details revealed themselves:- 'AMC II 1941'..so, the helmet's older than I thought, and it was made by the Austin Motor Company (like my first Mini Cooper 'S' :) ) Here's a fascinating list of Brodie manufacturers from WW1 to WW2.
https://www.treasurebunker.com/forums/i ... er-stamps/
Interestingly, the design goes all the way back to Agincourt in 1415, when the English away team displayed the awesome power of the Longbow; felling and peppering the flower of French nobility 8O
WW2 British Helmet- AMC 1941.jpeg
WW2 British 'Brodie' helmet. Made Feb 1941 by Austin
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Postby 43rdRecceReg » Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:44 pm

Now for the requested measurements:
We have front to back (rim to rim):
WW2 British helmet-front to back.jpeg
WW2 British Helmet- front to back measurement

and it is 12 inches exactly, as I said before. Parallax affects the measurement slightly in the photo.

Side to side, we have:
WW2 British helmet- side to side.jpeg
WW2 British Helmet measured side to side

It comes to 11.25 inches- near as damn it.
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Postby 43rdRecceReg » Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:48 pm

Finally, I got the depth of the bone dome slightly wrong before. The liner gets in the way. In reality, the height from the rim to the top is 4.25 inches. But with the liner in the way, you can't stick 4.25 inches of your cranium in there..it's more like 3.75in for that... ;) :lolno:
WW2 British helmet- height from rim.jpeg
WW2 British brodie helmet- height from rim to crown
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Postby Son of a gun-ner » Tue Feb 13, 2018 9:08 pm

LOL your last comment.

Thank you so very much for that Mr 43rd :thumbup:

The harness doesn't matter because it was the actual helmet measurements I required, I wanted them for reproduction purposes. But now saying that, I guess I needed those measurements for getting it right when it's fitted :thumbup:

Thanks again.

Mick.
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Postby Estnische » Wed Feb 14, 2018 11:26 am

43rdRecceReg wrote: it was made by the Austin Motor Company (like my first Mini Cooper 'S' :) )
The attachment WW2 British Helmet- AMC 1941.jpeg is no longer available


rumour has it Roy, that your Mini was made of recycled British Helmets! :O

What a coincidence.png
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Postby Son of a gun-ner » Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:30 pm

Estnische wrote:
43rdRecceReg wrote: it was made by the Austin Motor Company (like my first Mini Cooper 'S' :) )
WW2 British Helmet- AMC 1941.jpeg


rumour has it Roy, that your Mini was made of recycled British Helmets! :O

What a coincidence.png

Obviously why they made it so small, not enough helmets with people like Roy hoarding them ;) :haha:
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Postby 43rdRecceReg » Wed Feb 14, 2018 12:45 pm

Estnische wrote:
43rdRecceReg wrote: it was made by the Austin Motor Company (like my first Mini Cooper 'S' :) )
WW2 British Helmet- AMC 1941.jpeg


rumour has it Roy, that your Mini was made of recycled British Helmets! :O

What a coincidence.png

:lolno: :haha:
..and just like the donor helmets, it wasn't rust, or bulletproof either :lolno:
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