Early clutch Tiger rebuild

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golddustpeak
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Early clutch Tiger rebuild

Post by golddustpeak »

I recently acquired an early single motor 1/16 tiger.

I plan to rebuild it as needed from the ground up but want to retain the single motor / clutch drive train.
At this point I want to focus on just the chassis and drivetrain.

I’m looking for any and all help as to:
Disassembly
Parts to keep
Parts to replace / modify
Parts sources
Reassembly

Thanks in advance…….
golddustpeak
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Re: Early clutch Tiger rebuild

Post by golddustpeak »

Thanks for the reply.

As best I can tell it is a Tamiya #56004 King Tiger.
sassgrunt
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Re: Early clutch Tiger rebuild

Post by sassgrunt »

I don't know it all, but have learned a few things through experience, and hope I can help. When Tamiya brought out their King Tiger in 1982, it had that one-motor clutch drive and used a small gearbox in the center of the chassis to rotate the turret. Later, Tamiya released "updated" versions of the King Tiger, with either the Henschel or Porsche turret, and electronics/motor changes. They were now what's called "full option" with battle-capable electronics and one 380 motor for each track, (instead of the single 540 motor in your tank). The last change they made, (and I don't know exactly when, but somewhere in the later years of production), was to add a small length to the outside of the roadwheel axles. On your kit and all the early ones, the axle passes through a single brass bearing inside each roadwheel. It works just fine, but as parts wear a little, the roadwheels can have a slight wobble to them. (I don't believe it affects the running or causes it to throw tracks; people just didn't like the fact that the roadwheels didn't stay straight and true). So Tamiya lengthened the end of the axle and made it pass through a second brass bearing. I'm NOT suggesting that you consider updating your roadwheels, as the cost would be substantial, (new axles, bearings, and possible outer wheel parts, if you could find them), and it wouldn't really be that much of an improvement in the final product.

The clutch system is pretty reliable, as long as the internal pads haven't worn out. You won't know that until you put power to it. But, lots of people change the clutch out for twin motors (which match the more-modern electronics), so they aren't impossible to find on the market. I think I even have a set, if yours don't work.

The motor control in your tank uses a rheostat. Not a bad thing at the time, but there have been several manufacturers since then who have made Electronic Speed Controls (ESCs) that will run your 540 motor much more smoothly.

Tracks - although they look pretty flimsy - are very long-lasting and you shouldn't have an issue with them. And, they're readily available if you need to replace them. I would advise against buying metal tracks. The idea of metal tracks seems pretty cool, but they put a strain on every part of the running gear/motor, and you will need to beef everything up to avoid breakage.

Rear idlers can be difficult to adjust and have them remain in position, so many people like to upgrade the idler mounts. But, get yours running and see if it's a problem before you start throwing money at things that you might not need.

The final decision on everything is up to you of course; but you might start with exactly what you want it to do when you're finished with it. If it's mostly to be a shelf-sitting masterpiece with occasional running; then completing it as it originally came out is your best bet. When and if you ever decided you want a completely upgraded one you can battle with other tanks; you're better off starting with a kit that is meant to be that way - it's a LOT less expensive than trying to obtain all the parts you'd need to convert and older one. -Mike
golddustpeak
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Re: Early clutch Tiger rebuild

Post by golddustpeak »

Thanks again for the quick reply.

You have helped me understand the need for stronger components when adding metal tracks, but remember I wish to keep the single motor configuration.

While I have the chassis apart for cleaning and updates it seems as if this would be the time to consider:
Improved suspension (stronger springs?)
Improved Idler Assembly
Wheel Bearings
Metal Road Wheels
Metal Tracks
Change to metal Gears

But what makes since and where can I find the components.
There seems to be little or no agreement as to what will fit my early #56004 King Tiger.

Again thanks for the comments and help.
sassgrunt
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Re: Early clutch Tiger rebuild

Post by sassgrunt »

Right offhand, if you are dead set on adding metal tracks, then the clutch system may not be sufficient to move it along...certainly not in grass or even up a step grade. It was designed for lighter components, and there's no way to "tighten" the amount of friction on the clutch faces, (at least, none that I'm aware of).
golddustpeak
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Re: Early clutch Tiger rebuild

Post by golddustpeak »

sassgrunt wrote:Right offhand, if you are dead set on adding metal tracks, then the clutch system may not be sufficient to move it along...certainly not in grass or even up a step grade. It was designed for lighter components, and there's no way to "tighten" the amount of friction on the clutch faces, (at least, none that I'm aware of).
Thanks,
No requirements set I just want to understand the possibilities and issues involved.

But as to the clutch system, what happens if add I add additional weight?

Can the clutch friction plates be up graded?

TNX agan
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PainlessWolf
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Re: Early clutch Tiger rebuild

Post by PainlessWolf »

Good afternoon,
Those older Tamiya single motor clutch systems are marvels of engineering and as Mike has noted, work great with original kit components. Start upgrading a lot of stuff to metal and you may as well buy the more modern kit, again, as noted. I am not aware of anyway that those tiny plates can be upgraded outside of replacing the entire unit for a twin motor system. Look in the Tamiya Builds sub section of the Forum and you will find a couple of Builds where the older Tamiya King Tiger like yours has been upgraded and rebuilt. Welcome to the Forum, pics of your work as you go along, please.
regards,
Painless
...Here for the Dawn...
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c.rainford73
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Re: Early clutch Tiger rebuild

Post by c.rainford73 »

sassgrunt wrote:Right offhand, if you are dead set on adding metal tracks, then the clutch system may not be sufficient to move it along...certainly not in grass or even up a step grade. It was designed for lighter components, and there's no way to "tighten" the amount of friction on the clutch faces, (at least, none that I'm aware of).
I agree Mike. With my Tamiya King Tigers the clutch style gearbox would run with the stock plastic tracks and when I've upgraded to dual gearboxes or a newer full option version I have run metal tracks. That being said I don't always run metal tracks on a Tamiya tank.....my Tamiya Panther G runs excellent on plastic tracks and has dual gearboxes and is full option.

The money you would be spending on metal tracks would be better served IMHO on dual gearboxes and electronics. Impact metal tracks for Tamiya run about $150.00 US and original Tamiya King Tiger tracks are $200.00 US plus shipping from the Danville tank museum in the states.

Unless you have a desire to keep the stock drivetrain I'd stay with the kit provided Plastic tracks.Image
Tanks alot.... :wave:
Jay-Em
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Re: Early clutch Tiger rebuild

Post by Jay-Em »

I don't know about the Tiger, but the Prtl came with metal tracks in those days, and in typical Tamiya "Why not over-engineer" -fashion, each track-link consisted of 9 ( ! ) parts. And You'd have to build the tracks, part for part... 9 parts x 200-something a side... *shiver* done that, been there.

All-in-all, the whole affair was pretty heavy. However, the clutch drive train ónly started protesting when I put a Technigold @ 8.4v in it. So the clutches are pretty strong, but You càn make them slip when over-powering. I'd keep at a single rs540sh. With that motor, metal tracks and everything probably won't be a problem.

On the other hand, if it's an 80's original, I'd baby it, and only run it every now & then. The gearbox contains many fast-wearing brass gears, and getting replacements for àny parts, means paying extortion-like prices on flea-bay. Tamiyas, cars as well as tanks, are valued collectors' items. Though, thanks to Tamiya's re-releases, at léast the rc cars of my youth are affordable. :D
golddustpeak
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Re: Early clutch Tiger rebuild

Post by golddustpeak »

Thanks for all the replies!

After reading your replies, the build section and everything else I could find I've decided to:
Fix the wobbly road wheels with new bearings.
Replace the idler / tensioner.
Have a look at the condition of the clutch.
Add a gearbox brace (undecided).
And keep it as light as possible.

TNX again
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