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Tamiya full-option King Tiger zimmerit

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Postby 43rdRecceReg » Thu Jun 15, 2017 12:16 am

The 1/16 Full option Königstiger comes with two sheets of zimmerit. Assuming it is applied and painted properly, does zimmerit improve the KT's appearance? Tamiya provide a few examples of actual historic KTs from WW2, some with zimmerit- others without- to base the model on. The turret already has a nicely 'pitted' exterior, and would look good 'au naturel', so to speak, and this makes the choice difficult.... :problem: :D
I suppose, when there's a zimmerit kit with the tank, there's a temptation to use it so as to squeeze the maximum value out of the package....especially as these packages are never cheap..Any thoughts?
After the Cromwell, I've decided to build the Tamiya KT...and it's already on the stocks in my imagination.. :shh: This Damned addiction... :lolno:
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Postby Samurai Modeler » Thu Jun 15, 2017 5:50 am

I would recommend not using the Tamiya KT Kit Zimmerit Sheets. They do not look that good, even well applied, and not many people have bothered to use them over the years.

Visit here for alternative finish ideas:

http://www.naritafamily.com/howto/kingt ... _frame.htm
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Postby Tiggr » Thu Jun 15, 2017 6:30 am

You could always sell the zimmerit sheets on - I was on the market for them a couple of months ago.
I like the look of zimmerit on my HL Königstiger- I don't consider that I made a good job of it though :haha:
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Postby Rad_Schuhart » Thu Jun 15, 2017 7:03 am

I preffer to make my own zimmerit. I attach a couple of photos. That's an early painting stage, now the tank has a three color camo and so on.

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Postby tomhugill » Thu Jun 15, 2017 9:45 am

The atak king tiger zimmerit is excellent!

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Postby 43rdRecceReg » Thu Jun 15, 2017 2:02 pm

Hmmm..well, still undecided. Yes, Tom, I've heard good things about the Atak Zimmerit. I'll need more research on that one when the project goes 'live'..However, the problem with the Tamiya version, I read somewhere, is that if you make a balls up of it, it's very difficult to remove. :problem: While HL parts are relatively inexpensive to replace (relative to Tamiya, that is), Tamiya bits definitely aren't. :lolno: That makes getting the decision right all the more critical.
Thanks for the pics, Rad. You've done a fine job there, although it looks as if the tank's been attacked by zimmerit-hungry moths :D Personally, I'm not in the beaten up/ war damaged camp as some here are. Several distinguished contributors here have turned the 'abandoned tank look', or ' the peppered panzer' almost into a separate art form. :) I couldn't match their models, even if I wanted to.
I prefer the recently-off-the-production line appearance; maybe with a few oil leaks here and there, light weathering (blending) as well as shadowing from exhaust gases.
Artistic Hobbies made a good fist of the Tamiya zimmerit here:
http://www.artistichobbies.com/resource ... tiger9.php
kingtiger zimmerit.jpg
Artistic hobbies KT build
kingtiger zimmerit.jpg (58.72 KiB) Viewed 336 times

kingtiger zimmerit.jpg
Artistic Hobbies KT zimmerit
kingtiger zimmerit.jpg (58.72 KiB) Viewed 336 times

Now, If I had that talent, i'd certainly clank down the old Zimmerit trail.... :haha:
Last edited by 43rdRecceReg on Thu Jun 15, 2017 11:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby 43rdRecceReg » Thu Jun 15, 2017 2:11 pm

Samurai Modeler wrote:I would recommend not using the Tamiya KT Kit Zimmerit Sheets. They do not look that good, even well applied, and not many people have bothered to use them over the years.

Visit here for alternative finish ideas:

http://www.naritafamily.com/howto/kingt ... _frame.htm


Thanks for the link. :thumbup: That's an interesting and instructive webpage. My only reservation is that when zimmerit was bonded to tanks, it rarely came off, and was seldom patchy unless the tank had absorbed some battle damage. Even then, until the decision was made to stop adding the coating to new tanks, in the autumn of 1944, I imagine that the the bits that had been blasted off would have been repaired along with the metal substrata. That's my understanding, but I could be wrong. :problem:
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Postby jarndice » Thu Jun 15, 2017 2:16 pm

I have managed to retain a few more working brain cells than would otherwise be the case because I have avoided "Zimmerit",
And you have an excellent excuse to not apply it to your next masterpiece,
The Tiger 2 was a late arrival on the battlefield and not too long after, some pen pusher in a Berlin office realised that the anti magnetic mine paste "Zimmerit" was not working very well mostly because the only users of magnetic mines was the German Armed Forces. :crazy:
Although those cheating Russian fellows were not unknown to dig them up and reuse them against the enemy.
So a lot of late production Armour, not only Tigers left the factory free of "Zimmerit".
Shaun.

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Postby 43rdRecceReg » Thu Jun 15, 2017 2:40 pm

jarndice wrote:I have managed to retain a few more working brain cells than would otherwise be the case because I have avoided "Zimmerit",
And you have an excellent excuse to not apply it to your next masterpiece,
The Tiger 2 was a late arrival on the battlefield and not too long after, some pen pusher in a Berlin office realised that the anti magnetic mine paste "Zimmerit" was not working very well mostly because the only users of magnetic mines was the German Armed Forces. :crazy:
Although those cheating Russian fellows were not unknown to dig them up and reuse them against the enemy.
So a lot of late production Armour, not only Tigers left the factory free of "Zimmerit".
Shaun.

Thanks, Shaun, after this erudite spot of input, the scales are now leaning slighty in the 'no zimmerit' direction. :thumbup: As for 'masterpiece', (and cheers for the unwarranted flattery :D ),the prime objective really is not to make a 'mess-terpiece' :lolno: :lolno:
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Postby Ad Lav » Thu Jun 15, 2017 8:16 pm

I have the atak zimmerit on my King Tiger. Going to get some generic sheets for the jagdpanzer iv as the supplies stuff is pooh
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Postby 43rdRecceReg » Thu Jun 15, 2017 11:36 pm

Ad Lav wrote:I have the atak zimmerit on my King Tiger. Going to get some generic sheets for the jagdpanzer iv as the supplies stuff is pooh

Have you posted pics of the Atak on your KT, Adam? If not, perhaps you could pop a few in here. Knowing your impressive record, I'm sure you did it justice.. :thumbup:
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Postby Samurai Modeler » Fri Jun 16, 2017 7:15 am

"My only reservation is that when zimmerit was bonded to tanks, it rarely came off, and was seldom patchy unless the tank had absorbed some battle damage...That's my understanding, but I could be wrong."

Hi,

Yes, that 1/16 KT write up is a Tamiya Master Model built over a decade ago, and your zimmerit theory, while interesting, is mostly your theory. Check out the photos in both "Tigers in Combat, Vol. 1 and Vol. II" and perhaps, read the books too. Anyway, I don't like the looks of zimmerit and it isn't a necessary finish on a KT as posted above. Even a few of the early Tiger IIs were fielded without zimmerit.

Enjoy, John
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Tiger-II-v1.jpg
Tamiya full option Tiger II.
Tamiya-Tiger-II-v2.jpg
Tamiya full option Tiger II with "what if 1946 paint" :)
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Postby 43rdRecceReg » Fri Jun 16, 2017 12:03 pm

Samurai Modeler wrote:"My only reservation is that when zimmerit was bonded to tanks, it rarely came off, and was seldom patchy unless the tank had absorbed some battle damage...That's my understanding, but I could be wrong."

Hi,

Yes, that 1/16 KT write up is a Tamiya Master Model built over a decade ago, and your zimmerit theory, while interesting, is mostly your theory. Check out the photos in both "Tigers in Combat, Vol. 1 and Vol. II" and perhaps, read the books too. Anyway, I don't like the looks of zimmerit and it isn't a necessary finish on a KT as posted above. Even a few of the early Tiger IIs were fielded without zimmerit.

Enjoy, John


A moot point indeed. Incidentally, I have looked at hundreds, nay thousands, of Tiger 1 and 2 photos, and also compiled a file on Pinterest of destroyed tanks (many sporting zimmerit). But then, I wasn't looking specifically for zimmerit damage.
That said, I've not noticed many examples of tanks- damaged or otherwise- with a patchy coating. Not that it really matters. Like you, I don't particularly like the look of zimmerit, except on the front of a Stug.
Oddly enough, not that much is known about zimmerit itself. Mike Gibb describes trying to recreate it for the restoration of s Stug (p.p. 62-63 'Tiger tank: owners' Workshop manual). Apparently,( he maintains), when newly applied, zimmerit contained benzine (and sawdust), which made it something of a fire risk when hit. In the cold winter of 1943-44, tanks would often leave the factory with the coating still wet; but this wouldn't necessarily cause to fall or flake off. Flames, it seems, had the effect of hardening it. 8O
In reality, this was a useless product that added 75 to 225kg to the weight of an armoured vehicle. :thumbdown:
I like your model, by the way :thumbup: it's very tastefully done. If you could post a pic with a slightly higher resolution, it would look even better. Louis, a contributor here, ('Imcq11) has a knack of posting pics that seem to leap out like a jack-in -a box- of detail.
Roy.
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Postby jackalope » Fri Jun 16, 2017 3:46 pm

The ATEK zim kit I got didn't fit the rear of my Taigen King Tiger very well, every thing was a little off.

But the rest of the kit fit very well!
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Postby Ad Lav » Fri Jun 16, 2017 6:16 pm

Image

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Postby 43rdRecceReg » Fri Jun 16, 2017 6:55 pm

Thanks, Adam! You do not disappoint. That's a real pro job. :clap: From a cursory comparison, I'd say the Atak (assuming it's properly applied) has the edge over the Tamiya offering. I have a Torro metal Ed KT (the one that comes with its very own crate..) and the lower hull there has an integral zimmerit embossed pattern. The turret has none. The pattern on the hull is not as visible as it is on the Tamiya or Atak versions. I quite like it, in fact, as an instance of a semi-zimmerit coating. Right now, I'm not bold enough to consider the Tamiya or Atak offerings; but if I'm swayed later, Atak would probably be my choice. Puttings decals on zimmerit doesn't look like child's play, either :think: A spray on stencil looks the best solution for that....
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Postby Samurai Modeler » Fri Jun 16, 2017 8:12 pm

43rdRecceReg wrote:
Samurai Modeler wrote:"My only reservation is that when zimmerit was bonded to tanks, it rarely came off, and was seldom patchy unless the tank had absorbed some battle damage...That's my understanding, but I could be wrong."

Hi,

Yes, that 1/16 KT write up is a Tamiya Master Model built over a decade ago, and your zimmerit theory, while interesting, is mostly your theory. Check out the photos in both "Tigers in Combat, Vol. 1 and Vol. II" and perhaps, read the books too. Anyway, I don't like the looks of zimmerit and it isn't a necessary finish on a KT as posted above. Even a few of the early Tiger IIs were fielded without zimmerit.

Enjoy, John


A moot point indeed. Incidentally, I have looked at hundreds, nay thousands, of Tiger 1 and 2 photos, and also compiled a file on Pinterest of destroyed tanks (many sporting zimmerit). But then, I wasn't looking specifically for zimmerit damage.
That said, I've not noticed many examples of tanks- damaged or otherwise- with a patchy coating. Not that it really matters. Like you, I don't particularly like the look of zimmerit, except on the front of a Stug.
Oddly enough, not that much is known about zimmerit itself. Mike Gibb describes trying to recreate it for the restoration of s Stug (p.p. 62-63 'Tiger tank: owners' Workshop manual). Apparently,( he maintains), when newly applied, zimmerit contained benzine (and sawdust), which made it something of a fire risk when hit. In the cold winter of 1943-44, tanks would often leave the factory with the coating still wet; but this wouldn't necessarily cause to fall or flake off. Flames, it seems, had the effect of hardening it. 8O
In reality, this was a useless product that added 75 to 225kg to the weight of an armoured vehicle. :thumbdown:
I like your model, by the way :thumbup: it's very tastefully done. If you could post a pic with a slightly higher resolution, it would look even better. Louis, a contributor here, ('Imcq11) has a knack of posting pics that seem to leap out like a jack-in -a box- of detail.
Roy.


Hi,

From March 2011, a photo brief for Tiger II Custom Full Option IR RC, go to the bottom of the page:

viewtopic.php?t=7011

The other Tiger II was sold off, so no more photos on hand.

FYI, this site does not seem to not consistently like large, clear web photos, say saved as a jpg at a 15" width by 72 dpi.

Enjoy, John
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Trunnion-Tiger-II.jpg
Tiger-II-Custom.jpg
Tiger-II-Hull.jpg
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Postby 43rdRecceReg » Fri Jun 16, 2017 11:45 pm

Thanks Samurai, the images enlarge nicely now, and do justice to the models. I use the 'Preview' feature in Mac OS to compress jpg. images to the Forum max of 351KB, (ratio of roughly 1210 pixels across by 1008 down - I forget the precise figure ) It's handy for getting the clearest detail out there. :wave:
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Postby Samurai Modeler » Sat Jun 17, 2017 6:38 am

Hi,

I use Mac Preview, Adobe Elements 15 and Adobe Photoshop, depending. Still the larger jpg saved file sizes you recommended do not always upload.

The message is: The file is too big, maximum allowed size is 350 KiB. Working today though.

John
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Web-Save.jpg
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Postby 43rdRecceReg » Sat Jun 17, 2017 11:42 pm

Samurai Modeler wrote:Hi,

I use Mac Preview, Adobe Elements 15 and Adobe Photoshop, depending. Still the larger jpg saved file sizes you recommended do not always upload.

The message is: The file is too big, maximum allowed size is 350 KiB. Working today though.

John


HI, John, The recommended maximum pixel-wise (having just checked) is: 1920- wide, by 1080 high. So... all you have to do in Preview is select 'adjust size', and reduce the height, or width to just below the limit. Assuming the pic ratio is already roughly letterbox, the other dimension- the height or width- you didn't adjust will automatically adjust when you click 'save'. It works for me every time. Just aim for 349 KB, say. :thumbup: Normally, you will only get the 'too big' message if one of the height of width pixel counts exceeds the stated limit. Sometimes, I'll crop the pic slightly to get the overall size down.
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