Some very basic questions.... (Torro Tiger Self Build)

Feel free to discuss anything and everything to do with tanking here!

Postby adm » Tue Jan 12, 2021 7:36 pm

Hi All,

So I have a Torro Tiger 1E 1/16 "Metal Pro" self build kit on order. I haven't built a model kit in probably 40 years, but we are in lockdown, so why not....?

The kit should arrive at the end of this week and I want to plan the build properly. I am going to try and do it as well as possible, but really don't know much about building these things.

So a couple of questions if you please....

Priming. There are obviously metal and plastic parts in the kit. Can I use the same type of primer for both? And if so, what's the best? I intend to wash/clean all parts before getting started and I have all kinds of solvents and soaps here so can get everything very clean. Then I presume next step is to prime everything before starting to assemble things.

Undercoating. What parts should get undercoated before any assembly? I presume it's easier to do all the wheels before assembly, and maybe the lower and upper hulls and turret as sub assemblies? I am thinking of using Tamiya acrylic paint for most things, but have also found various different vendors with interesting sounding paint sets.

Basically - I want to do the prep and painting when I should do it, rather than end up thinking "bugger, I wish I had prepped/painted that bit earlier"

Anyway - I'd appreciate any wisdom from the forum as to how best to go about this the "best" way.

Thanks in advance and I'll be back with more dumb questions soon enough....

adm
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Postby private weazil » Wed Jan 13, 2021 7:32 pm

Hope you're happy with the kit when it arrives. Don't get too bogged down with with undercoating, etc. at this stage. When it does come to subjects like primer, bear in mind what types are suitable; typically, white metal needs an appropriate primer but red oxide (coloured) primer could be very handy as that was what was underneath the topcoat on a Tiger. My advice would be to check out some of the fantastic Tiger I builds on the forum for ideas and inspiration (wisdom even!). You may decide to add/modify/superdetail and besides scratchbuilding bits and pieces there are many afterbuild parts and accesssories available for 1/16th Tigers. Good luck, stay safe and enjoy your big cat.
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Postby adm » Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:53 pm

Thanks!

I am really looking forward to this. I actually ordered a 1/35 Tamiya King Tiger kit today to practice painting on before I do the Torro kit. I also dragged my air tools compressor out of the garage and figured out how to add a regulator and adapt it down to fit a modelling airbrush. Ordered an H&S Ultra airbrush and loads of paint and other bits and pieces....so should be pretty much good to go.

Now I'm reading up on the wonderful world of weathering.....that's a degree level subject in it's own right!

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Postby jarndice » Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:58 pm

All that and you still have not introduced yourself and we really would like to know all about you Please :thumbup:
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Postby silversurfer1947 » Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:08 pm

Hi, and welcome to the forum. When you joined, you should have received an email and a private message. I am guessing that you have not yet read the message. It sets out some basic details of how we operate here. It would be great if you were to check the message, and introduce yourself accordingly. This is a great place to solve your problems and answer any questions. We are a friendly bunch.
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Postby adm » Wed Jan 13, 2021 10:13 pm

Hey - and sorry....I haven't read the PM (didn't notice it in fact).

I will head over and post an introduction!

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Postby General Jumbo01 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 4:22 pm

Hi and welcome. The Torro kit has both metal and plastic parts so simply use primer paints that are suitable. I tend to use Tamiya plastic primer rattle cans for the plastics and metal primer cans from Halfords etc for the metals. A good quality can will give you a satisfactory finish for the subassemblies you mention.

I generally use a Tamiya acrylic rattle can for the base colour too, providing they do an appropriate colour. And further colour work or weathering is then carried out using a good quality air brush.

I tend to build the main components, hull, deck, turret basics and then spray them. All the detailed bits and pieces l paint first then fit. Any load bearing glued joints l try to fit before paint is applied. And yes, wheels are best finished before fitting.

I find weathering is easier to do on an otherwise finished model but it's your choice. Indeed, the degree of weathering is a very personal thing, some inflicting both damage, rust and grime but l like to wear just the dust from a light rain shower or two! That's not laziness but simply my pleasure in being able to look at my models as they would have been before serous action.

Hope you enjoy your builds.
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Postby jarndice » Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:07 pm

Heng Long and Taigen/Torro's decals are rubbish, the only place for those are the nearest bin BUT instead of decals I use Stencils c/o our own RAD SCHUHART---
www.radindustries.wordpress.com/
He will make up a set to your specs or just select from the menu,
His workmanship is to a very high standard and if they were any cheaper he would be paying you :haha: :thumbup:
German Armour 1939/1945 used red oxide as a base coat,
Simoniz make a large rattle can of red oxide which is available from car accessory shops and it is ideal and at least half the price of Tamiya's little can,
Metal Etching Primer in a bottle is how I coat the metal fixtures and fittings on my armour,
The top coat/s can be brushed or sprayed through a rattle can, Humbrol/Tamiya (Be prepared to buy 5 of them at least) or an Airbrush,(Various companies sell paint for your airbrush)
Do remember that Tamiya products are alway more expensive than anyone else's but not necessarily better,
I build rather than glue my Tanks so lots of nuts and bolts from-----
http://www.prime-miniatures.co.uk
and of course you will need a pin vice and a model size tap and die set should you go in that direction.
The most important part of the build is the "Dry Run", Do nothing permanent unless you are certain that everything is correct. It is not a race, Take your time and remember this Forum is open 24/7 to offer a helping hand,
We will never tell you what your tank should be ie Historically accurate or a tank from your own imagination but if you have questions about tanks someone will know the answer,
For instance the Tiger 1 came in 2 official types "Early" and "Late" but modellers have invented their own type the "Mid", All three types are distinctively different and quite a few of us can point you in the right direction should you need help :thumbup:
Good luck and we will be very interested in your adventures with your Taigen/Torro Tiger1 so please keep us up to date with your progress. :thumbup:
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Postby General Jumbo01 » Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:18 pm

Just remembered. Metal turrets on plastic hull decks often cause problems with sag and wobble! Be prepared to reinforce plastic parts and shim any lose rotating parts! Many of us have been there, done that!
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Postby adm » Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:38 pm

Excellent. Thanks guys - some really good information there!

I have a 1/35 scale Tamiya King Tiger model that I will practice painting on. I have an air compressor already - and have just regulated it and adapted it down to a 1/8" air supply for an air brush and I should have an H&S Ultra airbrush arriving tomorrow. So after a fair bit of practice, airbrushing will be the way I shall go, so stencils make total sense to me.

I shall be having a chat with Rad once I decide how I want the tank to look.

Very interesting on the tap/die building approach. Probably a little too advanced for me at this point, but I do have a (much bigger) tap and die set that has seen good use over the years so that's definitely something to consider in the future.

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Postby adm » Fri Jan 15, 2021 10:29 pm

Soooo......reading up about weathering and I have a question.

I am trying to figure out in my mind a rough plan for painting this kit. It's going to be a while from now, but nothing wrong with being prepared.

Am I roughly on the right track here:

Wash everything with warm soapy water and dry

Prime. Metal surfaces with some kind of etching primer, plastic with something like Mig One Shot, or Tamiya primer

Undercoat - I think this should be a red oxide colour. Maybe several different shades to give some depth. (Looks like there's a Vallejo Air kit with multiple shades for this)

Chipping fluid / hairspray

Basecoat - grey or yellow depending on where I land on that decision

Camouflage

Stencilled numbers / insignia etc...

Then do some actual chipping with brushes, toothpicks etc back to the red oxide layer (question here is is there a time window or maximum coats window between applying chipping fluid or hairspray and then chipping back through base coat and camouflage, etc....?)

Then things like oil based pin washes to accentuate details, add grime etc...

Anyway - I may be rambling a bit but am trying to come up with a plan. Any advice greatly received.

Also.....looking at the wheels on my kit, they look like substantial metal items with rubber tyres (I admit I have not opened the bag yet). How do you paint those? It would seem like a giant pain in the arse to mask the rubber off, so would you just paint the whole thing and then try to remove paint from the rubber tyres or just leave it all painted, tyres and all and let driving the tank wear it as appropriate? Or pull the tyres off prior to painting and then replace?

Thanks!

adm
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Postby jarndice » Fri Jan 15, 2021 11:27 pm

I would avoid washing any part of the Tank with Soap and Water,
I would rub the Tank all over with Acrylic (Isopropanol) Thinners instead,
Tamiya thinners is criminally expensive, Shop around.
"Servisol" sell 1 litre cans for a lot less than Tamiya's little plastic bottle,
This will degrease the Plastic and metal which soap and water will not, Do not apply too much,
The Wheels on the Tiger were different depending on whether it is an Early Tiger 1, This will have Rubber tyres, Or a Late Tiger 1 in which case the wheels will be all metal.
It is possable that your kit has both early and late wheels which means you have to decide whether you are going to build an early or late Tiger 1.
There are many other parts particular to the different version, Cupola, Exhaust shrouds Headlights etc, Reading the instruction manual would pay you well.
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Postby adm » Fri Jan 15, 2021 11:46 pm

jarndice wrote:I would avoid washing any part of the Tank with Soap and Water,
I would rub the Tank all over with Acrylic (Isopropanol) Thinners instead,
Tamiya thinners is criminally expensive, Shop around.
"Servisol" sell 1 litre cans for a lot less than Tamiya's little plastic bottle,
This will degrease the Plastic and metal which soap and water will not, Do not apply too much,
The Wheels on the Tiger were different depending on whether it is an Early Tiger 1, This will have Rubber tyres, Or a Late Tiger 1 in which case the wheels will be all metal.
It is possable that your kit has both early and late wheels which means you have to decide whether you are going to build an early or late Tiger 1.
There are many other parts particular to the different version, Cupola, Exhaust shrouds Headlights etc, Reading the instruction manual would pay you well.


Thanks for this. I have about 20L of Isopropyl Alcohol here anyway so that will be easy. Also about 10L of pure Naptha, I think that will dissolve plastic, but should be excellent for cleaning the metal parts.

My kit is early only - hence the rubber tyred wheels....and the manual is my bedtime reading, much to the chagrin of my wife. It's decent for assembly, but has absolutely nothing to say about painting.

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Postby adm » Fri Jan 15, 2021 11:53 pm

Also...a little question on the physics of chipping fluid or hairspray. Trying to understand the mechanics behind it....

The paint is acrylic and water soluble. The chipping fluid / hairspray is non water soluble kind of lacquer based?

So it acts as a non water permeable barrier between the primer/base coat and and topcoat - so when you use water and a brush or something on the topcoat to "chip" the surface, the water softens the topcoat but the chipping fluid / hairspray prevents the water from dissolving the primer and ending up with a muddy mess? Plus there's also a hard lacquer physical barrier there.

Is that about right? Apologies for all the questions...

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Postby HERMAN BIX » Fri Jan 15, 2021 11:58 pm

That is about right yes. I’m
Not a chipping fluid guy but hairspray works well.
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Postby adm » Sat Jan 16, 2021 12:00 am

General Jumbo01 wrote:Just remembered. Metal turrets on plastic hull decks often cause problems with sag and wobble! Be prepared to reinforce plastic parts and shim any lose rotating parts! Many of us have been there, done that!


Interesting. Can you point me to any relevant threads, or maybe advise on any recommended approaches? Off the top of my head, I could think of either adding some thicker plastic sheet underneath the turret, or some bent metal strengthening cross members under the top hull....

Can't be doing with sag and wobble. I've been telling my wife the same for a while. Luckily we haven't needed to reinforce her yet. It might be costly or painful if we have to do so.

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Postby jarndice » Sat Jan 16, 2021 1:12 am

A smear of washing up liquid on the wheel rims make fitting the tyres AFTER Painting the wheels a doddle,
The Acrylic thinners will clean the metal work just fine,
www.rctank.de/
sell metal reinforcing plates that go along the inside of the tank body which will do the job of supporting the weight of the metal turret
9.95 euros plus postage.
It Is also a very good source of parts for Taigen/Torro Tanks.
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Postby adm » Sat Jan 16, 2021 8:13 pm

Excellent - thanks mate. I might go and order some reinforcing plates and just get that done from day one!

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Postby adm » Sun Jan 17, 2021 11:01 pm

jarndice wrote:A smear of washing up liquid on the wheel rims make fitting the tyres AFTER Painting the wheels a doddle,
The Acrylic thinners will clean the metal work just fine,
http://www.rctank.de/
sell metal reinforcing plates that go along the inside of the tank body which will do the job of supporting the weight of the metal turret
9.95 euros plus postage.
It Is also a very good source of parts for Taigen/Torro Tanks.



Soo....having a look at that website and I just can't find any kind of reinforcing plates for a 1/16 tiger. Sorry to be a pain, but do you have a link?

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Postby silversurfer1947 » Mon Jan 18, 2021 1:00 am

I think this may be what you were looking for https://www.rctank.de/Tiger-I-Metal-rei ... lower-hull
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