Porsche vs Henschel King Tiger

[jumpugly]

Well, I got over the conundrum by getting both styles lol.

Way to GO!!!!!!!!!

[jumpugly]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Started sending my kit "finds" to work instead of home to avoid the "Wrath of Wife."

[Jagdtiger 333]

The Porsche turret is much rounder and (I guess you could see it this way) sleeker, but irl the curved front made a shot trap, whereas the Henschel Turret looks bigger and more menacing. Like somebody said earlier, it just comes down to personal taste.

[General Jumbo01]

If you can keep the tail end on the road.........
Obviously later models with 4 wheel drive and controlled traction and added weight over the front wheels have overcome this serious design flaw.

How was it a design flaw? Before the latest electronic gizmos and 4wd, porche were trouncing the opposition, especially unpredictable mid engine cars on the track in production races, that's why so many were sold for racing, and why they ended up with so many different race classes, when I used to follow British touring car and production racing around the country, the 'design flawed' porche cornered astoundingly well (obviously wasn't in touring car races, support races and their own races on other weekends). One only has to look back at the stats of their old two wheel drive cars to see it. And now with 4wd, they're even better.

Mick.

Yes Mick - they all had big lead weights over the front wheels to compensate for the huge pendulum effect the rear mounted engine had.
Like I said - flawed engineering.

l prefer the IS-2. It was rear engined but suffered very little oversteer and looked great with Cosworth stripes. My first car was a MD Phantom but the mpg was rubbish.

Remind me - what was this thread topic?

[cashybai]

3 bits:
1. the porsche KT looks like the lovechild of a panther & a tiger 1 on steroids
2. If I'm honest traps regardless I've got a liking for the Porsche, smoothy curves take the hit for me
3. after escort mk1 gt's and mex's, I got the capri bug in a big way, now that's a car with handling quirks..two options to sort, cheap one's a bag of sand/cement in the boot, more expensive is stiffen the front end to the max to prevent roll, and soften the back to keep the rear wheels in contact regardless...

[43rdRecceReg]

The Panther Mantlet had the same 'shot trap' feature 'Porsche' turreted KT's had; that of deflecting incoming rounds into (and through ) the relatively thinner roof of the crew compartment, with predictable flesh puree-ing results. The Germans solved the problem by putting a 'chin' on the Panther Mantlet, and by fitting the Henschel Turret (Mk 2, shall we say ) to the Königstiger. The Germans weren't able to engineer the outcome to the War they had envisaged in 1939; but they were pretty effective at solving engineering problems in general. Think: V1 'Doodlebug' Rocket veering fatally to the right (until Hanna Reitsch joined the programme); V2 rockets toppling over; Schnorchel on 'U" boats in later stages of the War giving greater periods submerged and etc., and so on.. and so on.
Had the prototype turrets not been shot traps on these two models, the Germans wouldn't have changed them.
As for the Carrerra. I drove my son's 911 to Munster this year. It goes like scheisse off a heisse shovel, but is light at the front end in crosswinds (at well in excess of 100 Mph ) . The worst feature about the rear engine, is that it leaves a 'boot' at the front that's only big enough for some sandwiches, and a change of underwear (if needed )

[43rdRecceReg]

As a by the by, when my son and I went to the Porsche Museum in Stuttgart, shortly after the visit up north to the hallowed Tank-turf of the Munster Panzer Museum, we saw this at the entrance:

Porsche up a pole

Even the most talented car thief would have to be a skilled mountaineer to nab one of those!.
Oddly enough, there was precious little mention of Ferdinand Porsche's involvement in tank development in the Museum itself. Just one stand, in fact, with a few black and white pics.

43RR at the wheel of speed freak son's wheels..

I'd rather have the Audi TT...believe it or not, but then VW group cars ( in spite of the hype and legend) are not nearly as reliable as Japanese brands . Still, they do write some amazing software for them Handy when that MOT emissions test comes up

[Lert]

Now if the opposing tank had the higher ground ...

then it wouldn't need a shot trap to sink one into the hull roof plate.

[General Jumbo01]

The reason for going with the production turret was only partly because of the shot trap issue. The production turret was cheaper and quicker to manufacture with no 3 dimentional curves, no need to fit an extention for the commanders cupola and, with a slightly wider turret, more space internally for crew and storage (more rounds for example). Regardless, l absolutely drool over both designs which were only better by the JS-2, which l will drool over too when Taigen eventually ship them!!

[43rdRecceReg]

Oh, Back on Topic,

Love the Porsche turret, most would think the rounded front of the turret created a shot trap, well yes and no..
If you look at other tanks that were fielded at the time, alot were shorter (not as high) as the main deck of the Tiger II, so no danger there of a round hitting the lower edge and projecting into the tanks hull. Read a article about this, even if a tank were to hit the lower edge of the turret and the round were deflected down it would not have penetrated the upper hull as the round would have lost alot of velocity from the initial strike and then the angle after impact would have been more than the front glacis plate angle, thus deflecting away harmlessly.. The real danger actually to the upper hull was the high angle of a projectile like from artillery.... Now if the opposing tank had the higher ground then that was definitely a possibility

Cheers!

Even the King Tiger and Tiger were vulnerable to plunging artillery fire; but especially to Rockets fired from Typhoons etc. Pilots even claimed some success with 20mm cannon shots on Tank upper hulls and engine compartments.
Here's a clip from Stephen Zaloga's book on the Battle of The Bulge, where he makes reference to the deflected shot issue.

Extract from 'Battle of the Bulge' by Steven Zaloga

I guess it seems reasonable to suppose that some crews were killed or maimed by deflected shots, or the Germans wouldn't have bothered revising the mantlets.. Casualty figures are not easy to come by, though. I think Tiger 131 was disabled by a deflected shot from a Churchill, but the crew survived the hit; and it only jammed the turret, without going through the roof. But it was only a mere 6-pounder