Scratchbuilding C&Cs Mammoth Tank

[Munty]

Hi guys, hope I'm not stretching the site too far beyond it's comfort zone as I'm looking to scratchbuild a 1:16 scale non-historical vehicle but I really need help preparing for it before I get started so I'm hoping help will be forthcoming!

I'm looking to build a tank from a computer game which is easy enough but I'd really like to make it RC and that's much more of a challenge as it's somewhere I've never been before... I have detailed plans so I know dimensions and such but sadly the nature of the project means I can't really use very many off the shelf items for the build. As an example I need tracks with a 70mm tread and as of right now I can't find any that big for sale!

As I'm a rookie here I'll start off with some very basic questions before I plow on with what I'm planning. To start with, I need to know what my options are regarding construction material and the same question with regard to hardware.

I have a 1:16 Tiger which I dismantled a while back to get an idea of components but I think I'll need more for this build. I'll be running 4 very large tracks so I'm thinking I'll probably need one gearbox for each but I'm here to ask for opinions on stuff like this because I'm sure you guys will know everything that I don't!

It is a very real possibility that making this model RC will be financially impossible for me but if that's the case I'd at least like to set it up so I can RC it at a later date. For now my primary concern is what can I build this thing from? So please let me have some options, it's going to be big but fairly blocky with no curves and lots of corners so should be very solid when finished whatever I use.

Thanks in advance, Tim

[MarkofZollo]

Hi Tim (the enchanter by any chance? ),
can you tell us what you intend to build, or do you have a pic to show? Then perhaps we can work from there.
A pretty good building material most use is plasticard or styrene sheet, is available from most model shops in A4 size of varying thickness, usually around a pound or two.
I am a gamer myself and understand the wanting to replicate stuff so will try to help if I can.
Cheers, Dave

[Munty]

Welcome to scene 20

Thanks for the response Mark, I was starting to think you guys are keepers of sacred knowledge with so many views and no responses. 'He is not one of ussss!'

I don't think I need to name what I'm building if you're a gamer yourself so here are a few pics. First a comparison shot to show what I'm aiming for as a final size. I've scaled this from original artwork only using a lot of maths and lines (I don't know what it's called, its when you use a known size of an item in view to detrmine the size of other objects at different distances...) So here it is with a civilian and an Abrams for scale...


I know, I'm crazy right

I've already mocked up one of the four identical track carriages to try and help me figure out how the running gear might work so here are some pics of that by my Tiger for comparison. (It's sat on a DS box to account for the final height inc. track)


The biggest problem I'm having trying to imagine this in RC form is the fact that the tracks are rather unusual and the best drive wheels are at the bottom, in constant contact with the ground. That would make them unsprung (unless the entire gearbox was sprung) and also the location of these wheels BELOW the lowest point of the hull gives a further issue. Here's a quick image of what I see as the 'ideal' solution per track;


My only thought so far is that the gearbox can be placed normally inside the hull and then attached to each drive wheel via a drive chain from the final gear. The drive wheel could then be sprung using the final gear as the location for it's origin of rotation (therefore keeping the chain/belt taught at all times despite elevation of the wheel)

Further thoughts are that each track will need at least one gearbox so it's instantly very hardware heavy. The sketchup image above (not mine by the way, compiled from other artists work to be in scale) is NOT exactly how I plan the end product, the main difference being the 3 bogey wheels shown. I want 4 per track as that is hat original artwork shows. I think 2 pairs per track would be best, as illustrated in my doodle!

Another hurdle to cross is that these tracks need to be 70mm wide so will need to be custom made unles I'm very much mistaken! I think the only way for this is to sculpt a single link and then mould the rest from that but I'm not sure how I'd be able to do that as I'm arguably lacking the skill, tools and money to achieve it

I was thinking about just cracking on with building the shell for now as I know the hardware will be pretty damn dear for a build this big but I'd really love to be able to realise the whole design at once so please advise me! My dream result for this would be a fuel driven RC vehicle with a turning/firing twin barrelled turret. But regardless I'm definitely going to end up building this thing, even if I have to do it with no hardware at all! I think it'll be awesome either way :p

Plasticard was my initial thought but I wasn't sure how strong I could make something from it. I've only used it in small and simple builds up to this point, certainly nothing I intend to be movable! And then I need to know what thickness will be best, how best to reinforce joins and what I can use to detail it with once construction is finished. Also some info on a good tool for cutting/shaping it would be good (even if it's just 'get a good craft knife') as currently I have a hard time working cleanly with the stuff

Thanks for the response and please bring on some more

[blimp]

Hi Tim , try other larger 'toy' vehicles . e.g. bulldozer / excavators , they could supply the oversize tracks (and running gear) you need

[Munty]

Ooh thanks, that's actually a very good avenue I've not looked down Would certainly do for a temporary solution at the very least and I imagine save a fortune!

[Wolftone]

Perspective ? I like the idea of this project for it stretches the building of a RC tank in a different way. There is plenty of source material for the tanks we build & lots of established know how on the subject. This is from an imagined tank but its still a tank. The engineering & modelling required is just the same. Just a similar set of problems to solve that the origional manufacturers of the tanks we build had to do themselves.
I am a bit of a fantasy freak so i know where you are coming from too.
As dave said before, plasticard will be the easiest way to build such a tank. Looking at your drawing it is made up of flat planes so all you need to do is transfer the cutting angles to the plastic. I can see a lot of time spent in a vice with flies to get it together. You will definitly need a good scribe. Available from any decent hardware or engineering supplies. A selection of files. And a decent hacksaw. A good way to saw plasticard is to clamp it flat with a couple of G Clamps and a strip of wood over the edge of the table or bench. Stops the card flopping about when cutting & makes a suprising difference. Cut just to the outside of the scribed line & file down to the line to finish. Oh! dont charge in with the hacksaw. Take it slow and hold it at a flat angle to the workpiece. That way it keeps its line & dosen't try to run off in a wiggle.
Sorry if i'm taking coals to Newcastle here. But, as the old adage go's, if you don't ask you may never know.
Looking forward to seeing how you get on, & if i can be of any help, i will. Andy.

[Munty]

Thanks very much Andy you've already helped a lot! As plasticard was already in my mind and has now been suggested by you guys as well I think it'll make a perfect material. I also see no reason why I can't begin building without final knowledge of hardware, it is a scratch build after all so it's not like the mounts can be in the wrong place!

Construction will be rather straightforward as you say. It's just a case of getting the dimensions right and as I was lucky enough to find this sketchup model in very close tolerances to the original art I shouldn't have a great deal of problems in the planning stage. Will be more likely to falter while in the process of trying to make it a reality I'm sure!

Is there an agreed 'best' thickness or type of plasticard that I should look to use? I know I don't have any shops near me that will be able to provide it so if anyone has a link to a reasonably priced UK store that'd be marvellous! Honestly I think this will be a rare case of the buil;d being easier to get right than the detail as I'm not good at flat paintjobs. Will be a fairly basic camo I imagine but with such a large model and fairly little detail it's going to have to be good and I'm not all that great at these things! I like painting small detail or large one-colour small-scale models. Not large-scale patterned faces :p

Anyway, the advice on tools is much appreciated and it gives me a few things to ensure I have between now and ordering the materials I'll need. It may sound like rookie stuff to know but as I've already said, these will be the largest structures I've ever made from plasticard which means the longest straight lines to date! A couple of wonky corners and I may as well not bother really.

I've done some maths on the track and have a basic idea of what I'd like which takes the principle of the drive system used in the sketchup. When scaled up they're WAY too long (about 30mm each link originally!) but I think I'm going to need to go even wider now from 70mm to a maximum of almost 80mm! Will share my thoughts on that stuff a bit later though as I still have a lot of deducing to do to figure out the best solution on that front.

Thanks again for the help so far and again if anyone knows of a good (and affordable) supplier of plasticard in the uk please let me know.

[MarkofZollo]

Hi again Tim, glad you understood the Monty Python reference lol.
That looks like a Mammoth tank from C&C Red Alert days, am I close? I have used 2mm thick plasticard on a few things and its pretty good and tough, but I havnt seen any thicker. I get these sorta things from my local Antics, but I know thier post can be quite expensive. If it turns out ridiculous I could find out how much it cost me to send it and I could pick it up, im about 2 min walk from Antics and post office . Tools wise I recently got a rotary tool like a Dremel, very handy for cutting, filing and drilling etc. Probably the most usefull tool I own other than my hands , and Halfrauds still has them waaaay cheaper than anywhere else;
http://www.halfords.com/webapp/wcs/stor ... yId_165572" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
In terms of the wheel and susp set up you may want to see http://www.rctankwarfare.co.uk/forums/v ... =33&t=6299" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, flamethrower has fully built another Chuchill but with a potentially similar set up to what you propose. Also maybe http://www.rctankwarfare.co.uk/forums/v ... =23&t=5276" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, the LVT-4 also has a similar set up, perhaps message those people to discuss if needs be.
Im not sure what else to say for now but hope that is of some use. Remember where there is a will there is a way, and there always has to be a person to do it 'first'.
Cheers, Dave

[Munty]

I'm always game for some Monty Python, life wouldn't be as much fun without it And yes you're quite right, this is the Mk.1 Mammoth from the original C&C games. Tiberian Sun and later had a Mammoth Mk.2 which was a walker and then a Mk3 was in the latest releases which is far too modern for my liking.

Thankfully I have a proper Dremel that I got for £50 with a B&Q voucher at xmas. Best buy ever! Could do with some more accessories for it and I lost the spanner after the first week but I've been using it today on another project so I wouldn't be without it now! Will definitely need to get a good heavy duty craft knife to work with plasticard as I only have a small modelling one atm and I've pretty much taken all she has to offer already :p

Checked out both links and they may well be handy further down the line so thankyou! I'm still trying to come to a happy medium regarding gearboxes, drive wheels and track at the moment but I'm pretty much resigned to the fact that it'll mostly need scratchbuilding. I'm up for that though so it's ok. Gearboxes however I won't make myself so if there are any particular models to keep an eye out for or some to avoid I'd really appreciate that info. If I end up needing 4 then I'll have to go slightly to the side of a bargain buy but I think I'll most likely end up completing the shell before working on anything more regardless so we'll see.

Thanks again for the responses, I'll get looking for local suppliers tomorrow but first I need to figure out how much I'll need! The 1:1 plans are currently over 56 A3 pages but some of that is blank or barrel detailing so I won't need all of that for the actual build!!! Will update with my findings and hopefully place an order tomorrow!

EDIT : It seems I need a rather large amount of material, even after discarding everything I possibly can! The final count is no less than 18 sheets of A3 and 2 sheets of even larger A2! And to pre-emptively answer the inevitable question, the turret floor is simply that big that it will not fit on anything smaller than an A2 sheet!!! I'm having no luck sourcing this stuff cheaply so if anyone can help me with a good supplier (or if you happen to be one yourself!) please don't be shy as I want to place an order!

RE-EDIT : What's the difference between plasticard, foamboard and expanded PVC foam board? I've found a place online that's dead cheap but only does plasticard in A4 The other 2 go up to A3 though and are a steal, I just don't know if they'd be fit for purpose...

[Von kraftwerk]

hi Munty yes you are crazy,but then again so am I, go for it!reminds of some mad german ideas that never got built,the Russians built some mad thing with 4 sets of tracks, with 2 track runs under the belly,shaped like a flying saucer designed to cross swamps,good luck I want to see this,look up plastruct,they do plastic tubing all sizes,square rectangle,round,hex rod all sizes,for nuts bolts,girders angle iron shaped strip,all sorts,if you get the catolog you will find lots of helpful things to build and strengthen structures,also hobby catolog has some tracks and running gear,not sure about sizes tho.