Panzer IV Ausf F1 to H Build

[KTRob]

Interesting thought Grasshopper....I had thought the same thing....but if those cans were filled with water instead of gas... they would serve as good projectile stoppers.... a bullet would almost ...and remember I say Almost...come to a dead stop ...maybe not even reach the other end of the can...
Water is a good bullet stopper ....as is dirt which I am older than...and also what could be in those cans

ALPHA

Hi Alpha, yes indeed you would be correct for a standard rifle bullet fired from the ground, however when you take into account a .50cal round fired from a diving aircraft doing 270+ knots on a strafing run, those Jerry cans wouldn't even slow the bullet down even if filled with sand let alone water.

Just to put into context, a spitfire round could penetrate up to 5 inches of solid steel plate when fired at strafing run speed.

Because of the muzzle velocity + a/c speed + angle of attack the heat of the round would vaporise the water ahead of it until submerged to a depth of 4 feet. It is only after this depth that the round would either break up or lose any effective injuring characteristics.

This is why a lot of sailors at Pearl died once in the water and during the Normandy invasion on the landings when getting out of the landing craft because they thought they would be safe just under the water.

Just my military input two Penneth lol.

Good point Merlin...but filling them with water or dirt...is still better than having those babies sitting atop the turret like that with gas in them ....even if it's diesel.....having a barrier that will help stop bullets.. from any direction is better than none at all...or even worse....one that is flammable or explosive

Diving into water is a 50% 50% deal.... if you can dive down enough and hold your breath there is a good chance you can dodge a bullet...most of the guys that died in the water were close to the surface...where the water has least resistance ....you ever shoot into water Merlin?....the bullet no matter what caliber will travel about three feet then drop totally to zero velocity ...reason ballistic testing tanks are less than six feet long

With that said...a 20mm cannon like what some Japanese attack aircraft British Hawker Tempests had is a different story...mostly because that's not a bullet ...The guys in Tiger Tanks were afraid of those lol

ALPHA

ps. no protection is ever 100%....I've seen guys get killed by a ricocheted frag ...so basically an indirect shot ...war is war...do you take cover or do you just stand out to be a target ?

Hi Alpha,

Do you think my idea of the cans being used to refill the tanks after travelling from say a railhead to a dispersal area near the front is feasible? or would they have had fuel tankers for that?

Leaving them on empty would stop small rounds and shrapnel from grenades I would have thought? Maybe they fill the gap in the spaced armour at the front of the turret?

I have to do some research, I assume the Wehrmacht would have had a policy or regulations on the carrying of extra fuel.

[philipat]

If you find springs, let me know where and the dimensions...and for the retaining pins. You might try Asiatam for hinges. They have some small ones. That was one of the details I was just going to ignore. But, if you can make it work easily, I might revisit that choice.

What is Perspex?

[edpanzer]

Perspex is clear plastic

[jarndice]

If you are after HINGES I buy mine from

http://www.miniatures.com

and I buy all manner of nuts and bolts and SPRINGS from

http://www.prime-miniatures.co.uk

These are both reputable dealers but the Dolls house people are a bit on the expensive side but a quality product. Both sites will reward you if you spend time looking at their respective ranges. shaun

[ALPHA]

Hi Alpha,

Do you think my idea of the cans being used to refill the tanks after travelling from say a railhead to a dispersal area near the front is feasible? or would they have had fuel tankers for that?

Leaving them on empty would stop small rounds and shrapnel from grenades I would have thought? Maybe they fill the gap in the spaced armour at the front of the turret?

I have to do some research, I assume the Wehrmacht would have had a policy or regulations on the carrying of extra fuel.

A little difficult to speculate KT.....but for conversation purposes let's look at your photo again



it really doesn't look like they would hold fuel...just because how they are situated atop the turret....if they contained fuel...I don't think they would lay them down in that manner...as leakage could occur...spilling the fuel pretty much over the front of the tank...the ones behind the schurzen maybe...as they are upright

as far as feasibility goes...sure it's feasible ....not sure it would be all that logical for them to be empty though....they would be more dangerous empty...as each would be filled with more explosive "vapor"....a partially or empty with residual would be like having a bunch of molotov cocktails adorning your tank

Reason I theorize they are there to act like sandbags for added protection....who knows for sure though...because they do look pretty new no dents or dings...so the reason they are layed down like that could just be attributed to a young tank crew ...who don't know any better ...yet

ALPHA

[billpe]

The wehrmacht had lots of policies which were ignored by the tank arm. For instance it was expressly forbidden to use tracks as spaced armour because it actually helped sub calibre rounds penetrate the main armour.

I would suspect they're carried for a road march from railhead to the muster. Theres pictures of other tanks doing pretty much the same thing. Notice they're also carried on the side behind the skirt. It's always possible it's not fuel they're carrying but lubricants or water.

[Merlin707]

Hi Alpha to answer your question yes I have shot into water.

A few times during my instructor duties for new loadmasters, the main times though was during exercises hanging out the side of a Chinook or CH53 with a GPMG or Mini Gun

More recently though during the Iraq and Afghanistan operations, but that wasn't firing into water.

[ALPHA]

Hi Alpha to answer your question yes I have shot into water.

A few times during my instructor duties for new loadmasters, the main times though was during exercises hanging out the side of a Chinook or CH53 with a GPMG or Mini Gun

More recently though during the Iraq and Afghanistan operations, but that wasn't firing into water.

Cool Merlin...Had a hunch you did ....think everyone should at least once...it's an eye opening experience.... now...where you ever close enough to the water to actually notice when the bullet lost momentum ? ....that's the coolest part of the whole deal

ALPHA

[Merlin707]

Hi Alpha,

During my instructor lessons we had a clear see through bullet catcher so you could see what happens etc.

We also attached a microphone so you can here too which is very interesting to listen to.

[SovereignZuul]

The wehrmacht had lots of policies which were ignored by the tank arm. For instance it was expressly forbidden to use tracks as spaced armour because it actually helped sub calibre rounds penetrate the main armour.

Wow, never heard that. I'd love any extra info you can give on that topic!